Saturday, July 31, 2010
Is Archbishop Dolan a phony?
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He's not the only one either.
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I assure you - sometimes I just do not know when I'm being set up by commenters, fellow bloggers, and the otherwise traditional Catholic people who anonymously monitor the web while on a constant witch hunt trying to dig up scandal on one another.
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I am not ashamed to post honestly and truthfully on my blog, using my own name, telling my own story. I want to make it clear that I also operate under the assumption that Bishops currently appointed by the Holy See are orthodox and faithful to Church teaching - until I find out otherwise. In the case of Archbishop Dolan, it appears I may have been mistaken and that it may be business as usual in the 'American' Catholic Church. My apologies if I unintentionally misled anyone.
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That's all.
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I also assume Abp Dolan is orthodox and so, when the LGBT groups are presented as "evangelizing" and helping other LGBT Catholics "return to the sacraments," it ought to be supposed - by the Abp or anyone else - that they are worthy of those sacraments - i.e., free from mortal sin - in so far as any of us are.
ReplyDeleteThe designation LGBT might be like "divorced," a description of one's human condition but not necessarily one's spiritual qualifications?
I thought the Archbishop was celebrating the fact that people had returned to the Church and Sacraments, not that their homosexual lifestyle was being applauded. Dunno, but that's how it seemed to me. Maybe he then duly reflected and made his direction about the non- church banner carrying paticipation in the march, incase it was deemed to be giving approval to the gay lifestyle.I can't see any wrongdoing, from what I witnessed of the Archbishop's actions.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe I am, missing some huge error here.
You keep your mind at ease Terry, ask Our Lord for some ministering angels. You were bound to be pulled down by old nick today, after such fruitful posting earlier. Rejoice already!!
Like the above posters I was also hoping that the lesbian and homosexual groups were involved in things like Courage and that is how Abp. Dolan saw it.
ReplyDeleteAnother thought - perhaps the video was edited to make it seem he showed approval for these groups. You see this trick on reality shows all the time - they take a scene and place it out of context.
I love Abp. Dolan - if he does advocate the gay lifestyle I will be heartbroken.
Sorry to post again, but something about this video deosn't rest easy with me. The guy, Michael Voris, I assume, is a proffessional journalist. He also makes a big point of speaking the truth, and nothing but etc in some of the other videos I have watched of his. I used to like him and believe every word he uttered, but he began to get on my wick( nerves) and that is always a sign for me to be wary. In this latest video, he goes out of his way to tell his 'story' in a set sequence of events. He doesn't for a minute, suggest any of the above possible scenarios that we commenters have thought of. Does he make money from this channel of his? Indeed, does he rely on juicy stories about the Church, in order to make a living? Scandal, unproved, does not work for God's righteousness.
ReplyDeletei know abp. dolan to be orthodox. he was born & raised in my home parish in st. louis and we know him v e r y w e l l. he does NOT condone gay behavior, but is of the mind of the Church calling all persons with SSA to live chaste lives. as the group was supposedly presented, it appears they are working to be part of the Church in reconciliation, but the mere use of the phrase LGBT suggests they are more like "Dignity" and not the Church-approved Courage Apostolate. Abp. Dolan is being set up. Don't believe a word of this innuendo.
ReplyDeleteI agree Doughboy.
ReplyDeleteWhy would you use such a title, questioning whether a specific bishop is a phony?
ReplyDeleteIsn't this just a matter of semantics, as usual? Because they are introduced as the "lesbian" group and the "gay" group, people like this knucklehead (who does seem to earn a living trying to uncover scandals) are automatically assuming that all of these folks must be living unchaste lives. But there does not seem to be one iota of evidence here that there is any real difference between this group and the Courage group, which is being lauded largely because they don't use the "lesbian" and "gay" terms, but instead say they are "SSA", or ex-lesbian or ex-gay. Yes, the one lady mentions her partner, but who knows that they aren't both living chaste lives? This is really very silly.
Terry, I share your concerns.
ReplyDeleteAnd the St. FX video disturbed me on a number of levels, but I'm just a crabby old traditionalist(!):<)!
michaelr: I think that the terms "gay" and "lesbian", in the common usage, also can indicate a political set of beliefs; most of the time they are at variance with Catholic teaching regarding human sexuality.
Symbols are hilarious, Terry!! Or should I call you Boomer-T?
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry that was Nazareth priest using the symbols...! But I still like my nickname for you!
ReplyDeleteFather, I understand what you are suggesting, but I don't believe that the use of the term "gay" or "lesbian" necessarily signifies that you agree with an agenda. This is exactly where many in the Church have gone right off the rails. I believe that most people in the Church, as elsewhere, use the term "gay" synonymously with "homosexual" or "same-sex-attracted" etc. None of this reflects on whether or not an individual is chaste or sexually active. I have no doubt that this is Archbishop Dolan's understanding.
ReplyDeleteSF - I need your humor - thanks!
ReplyDeleteDB - I'm hoping and praying you are correct. Thanks everyone for the good comments.
ReplyDeleteFr. - where have you been? I'm happy you jumped in on this - thanks.
The truth will prevail.
Shadowlands - I don't think much of Michael Voris either - this is the first time I ever posted anything from him. Hopefully it will be my last.
Doughboy. I agree
ReplyDeleteThe main charge of the video is that the Archbishop`s office did not return their enquiries. Why should they ?
On a more general note I get fed up of all these attacks on bishops by Catholics who seem to want to demonstrate that they are more Catholic than the Pope. I think Abp Dolan has got more than enough to do fending off attacks by those outside the Church such as The New York Times than reply to people who want to make a name for themselves.
Do they want to sap the morale of the Church and those that lead it ?
From the St. Francis Xavier Parish website, regarding some of their homosexual activities...
ReplyDeleteTheir general header: "Practicing Catholics and non-practicing, the religious and not-so-religious—all are welcome. Our mission is to provide a safe place for gay women to come together and discuss issues related to spirituality, identity and community."
In itself, I think this could be a good thing, a foot-in-the-door for those with this struggle who seek genuine reconciliation with God and holiness. At the same time, it could easily be a bad thing if it does nothing else than promote the "whatever you want to do is ok with us, you're 'safe' here" approach. That is not a work of mercy but the antithesis of it.
Catholic Lesbians: "Being Catholic Now"--"A meeting for Catholic lesbians ~ This evening we will discuss what "Being Catholic Now" means, about change in the church and our quest for meaning."
"Change in the church"...I wonder what kind of "change" they have in mind.
The LGBT Pride March: "Each year a group of us gather to March in the Parade. We join in that section of the parade reserved for religious congregations. Through our efforts at handing out flyers about our welcoming parish, a number of people find their way to St. Francis Xavier and back to the Catholic Church.
If you have any questions, please contact us using the contact information above. We look forward to spending this day of celebration together as a parish."
"Welcoming" can be a slippery word; I know of other "welcoming" parishes who are not exactly orthodox.
Also, "this day of celebration". What is it that's being celebrated?
The point of the video, I think, was that, as the reporter said, there is good reason to believe, based on the reputation of this parish (and perhaps what is advertised currently) that "gay" and "lesbian" groups being presented at a Mass to the Archbishop are not probably not evidence of genuine reconiliation with the Church and her teachings, but rather a haven for confirming those with this disorder in that disorder--that is precisely the essence of the "Gay Pride" movement.
You may note too that the website for the parish where this homosexual news is posted has an icon of a cross with the parish name colored in with the rainbow design as well as the word "PRIDE" across it. That's identification, as far as I can tell, with the affirmation of homosexuality as a lifestyle rather than a statement on the desire to live chastely and in accordance with Church teaching while bearing the cross of SSA.
As I wrote on another post, I really have no doubt tha Archbishop Dolan is with the Church and is not a secret supporter of the "Pride" movement--he's not a phony. At the same time, I question his applause of these groups and the seemingly weak and diplomatic response he gave, which puts confidence in the pastor of this parish where activity like that described on the website goes on. The Archbishop is fairly new to this diocese; perhaps he is simply not aware of its reputation or perhaps he thought there really was a change in the vein of actually adhering to the Church (like one finds with Courage) and he was applauding that change. My guess is that he is un/mis-informed about the problem that exists at this parish--he would not condone it.
Maybe the archbishop is waiting a little bit until he sets that house in order. When our pastor came to our parish he wanted to make many changes but he knew he had to win the trust of the people before he started dismantling everything they thought was good (but wasn't.)
ReplyDeleteFrom what I understand Minneapolis has a good bishop but he hasn't shut down the heretical parish of St. Joan of Arc (yet.)
I propose that we all pray for Abp. Dolan and see how things unfold.
Terry,
ReplyDeleteI was the commented on the other post about Archbishop Dolan, and I assure you I wasn't trying to set you up! I knew nothing of this video about the Archbishop, but after viewing it, I think it merely cast a bad light upon him. Perhaps he was being overly diplomatic or maybe there was more behind the situation than we know. I still believe, as far as I know, that he is a very orthodox bishop!
Andrew
Thanks very much Andrew - believe it or not I wasn't referencing your comment so much - but I'm delighted you straightened me out in that regard. It is a crazy subject to post about. I'm hoping and praying Dolan is a good guy.
ReplyDeleteAngela, while St. Joan hasn't been shut down, certain events that they tried to host have not occurred, such as the talk by a parishioner and his gay daughter who had written a book about her gayness or gay catholicness or something.
ReplyDeleteA similar parish had a new priest assigned and most of the parishioners left to form their own whatever it is that they were doing all those years; they objected to a Catholic church actually being Catholic. They blamed the Abp but the changes actually began with Pope Benedict whose papacy pre-dated the Abp's assignment.
Nan, that's good to know!
ReplyDeleteOn a lesser note and not counting the Anglicans, are Catholics the only group who have the propensity to scandalize the Church by revolting in such a way? Then, as if that defying act wasn't embarrassing enough, out of the woodwork come good intentioned critics who seem stir the pot even more. It gives enemies of the Church, I think, more ammo. On the other hand, on certain issues saying nothing is a terrible injustice (and impossible to suppress?). A bloody catch-22.
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice, just once in a while, to present the world a unified Catholic front. Obviously with some Catholic pro-aborts active (of all places) inside the Church, this may only be wishful thinking.
We ought to reserve judgement; howeverm Pslam 146:3 guides us well: "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help".
ReplyDeleteMaria - I often think of that psalm. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteTom - I think the Courage conference presents that united fron - I will be posting from Fr. Loya today - a remarkable address.
Nan - you angel! Thanks for adding those details - the good works of the Archbishop often get overlooked.
As for Dolan - I've heard from one source he was taken totally unawares at the presentation at Mass. At this point my question seems to be answered - Archbishop Dolan is NOT a phony.
Terry,
ReplyDeleteI regret bringing the video up at all if it has caused others to make the Archbishop look badly. So too should I be more cautious not to feed into the "witch hunt" mentality, if I'm indeed guilty of that. The time is likely better well spent. As for Michael Voris and his organization on the whole, I don't think there is malice intended, though the reports they issue are almost always negative from what I've seen and they border on self-righteous at times in my opinion.
"caused others to look upon the Archbishop poorly" is what I should have said...
ReplyDeleteX - don't take that upon yourself - I'm the one who made a big deal of it. Mea culpa!
ReplyDeleteWho IS this guy, Michael Voris, STB? Googling him doesn't bring up much about him except his TV station and receording of his shows. Staten Island Catholic at blogspot.com makes some interesting points about him though. What is his relationship to the Archdiocese of Detroit?
ReplyDeleteDear Mr. Nelson,
ReplyDeleteLooking for a good video?
Here's one for you:
http://vimeo.com/13791347
Please comment.
This apparition and message from our Mother is not very well known.
I think your web blog is very helpful to souls. Keep up the good fight.
Tu Amigo en Cristo Rey,
pablo
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Someone (either in the video, or maybe in a comment on this or the last post?) said that the Archbishop was either bad or naive. I think he is neither...well, perhaps I am naive myself, but he seemed to be applauding the fact that these people were "coming back to the Sacraments" as they were being introduced to him. Michael Voris goes on and on about what authentic Catholic terms mean, but he doesn't seem to realize that in authentic Catholic terms, "return to the Sacraments" means repentance and amending one's life! Heck, I was ready to applaud those words too!
ReplyDeleteThe report is credible as far as presenting that parish as a problem parish, though. But I think it is not fair to the Archbishop. (Or me--if I were there!) LOL
Good point, Aceman. There seems to be almost nothing known of Michael Voris, other than what his own corporation puts out. His detractors seem to think he some skeletons in the closet.
ReplyDeleteAce - I know Vox Nova has been critical of him as well - I actually regret posting this link to his stuff.
ReplyDeleteLeaving aside whatever skeletons Michael Voris, S.T.B. may or may not have in his closet, after watching more of his shows than I should have, his journalistic style is more akin to ET or The Nat'l Enquirer, flashy and pieced together and seemingly meant to titillate and shock. And what's with the spinning pencil at the beginning of every show? He does seem to be of the same mold as a couple of other Catholic journalistic giants one can watch on TV or who blog from exotic religious locales.
ReplyDeleteOnce again T, I think that it's important that you posted his opus, as it's good to show what's out there as good, solid, orthodox Catholic journalistic investigative reporting.
Back to the my own vortex...Ace
Vox Nova? You find this progressive liberal blog credible? Why would anyone even mention that site? Its attacks on Michael Voris are evidence of its vitriol towards all things orthodox. It took me one time of perusing the site to see the all too familiar wishy washy catholic in name only-types.
ReplyDeleteFolks, Michael Voris is only doing what many of us thought of or wondered "why isn't anyone saying/doing something about this?" He may be flashy, but heck, the Internet is flashy.
I for one, a faithful Roman Catholic husband/father, Knight of the Holy Sepulchre, and former seminarian have longed for a light to be shed on all of the weak shepherds who have confounded the faithful. I have contacted the Archdiocese and awaiting response on this subject. Too many times we faithful Catholics have not stood up to improprieties. The Holy Father was correct in that the Church might just have to be smaller.