"Are we prepared to promote conditions in which the living contact with God can be reestablished? For our lives today have become godless to the point of complete vacuity. God is no longer with us in the conscious sense of the word. He is denied, ignored, excluded from every claim to have a part in our daily life." - Alfred Delp, S.J.

Friday, July 15, 2016

Paris ... Nice .... I'm beginning to wonder ...

Researching the prophecies from LaSalette and Marie-Julie Jahenny ...

First, I want to say no matter what I've ever written, I do pay attention to these things - apparitions and messages given to chosen souls - those approved by the Church and or some of those attributed to mystics whose cause for sainthood has gone forward.  Having said that, I'm very skeptical about contemporary locutionists and self-promoting prophets.  They are debunked by their own 'prophetic utterance' even those with famous spiritual directors.  Some, predicting civil unrest and economic collapse and a quick restoration seem to me to be talking about stuff most people can either know through natural intelligence, and/or informed by established Catholic prophecy, resulting in reasonable deduction.  Their followers go after them for all sorts of advice which they could probably just as well pick up from economic-political-survivalist-doomsday preppers.

I don't guide my life by private revelation, and I think I maintain a healthy skepticism.  I especially agree with St. Annibale Maria Di Francia when he wrote:
“I love the private revelations of holy persons, but I never accept everything... Being taught by the teachings of several mystics, I have always deemed that the teachings and locutions of even holy persons, especially women may contain deceptions. Poulain attributes errors even to saints the Church venerates on the altars. How many contradictions we see between Saint Brigid, D’Agreda, Emmerich, etc. We cannot consider the revelations and the Locutions as words of Scripture. Some of them must be omitted, and others explained in a right, prudent meaning.” - Source
I trust the Church - the Holy Father and the Magisterium.  Even amid the current confusion.  I believe what we proclaim in the Creed.

That said - I was thinking of Our Lady of La Salette and Marie-Julie Jahenny this morning, after the terror attack in France last night.  Nice ... close to Marseilles ... Paris.  I'm wondering.  Just wondering.

  • "Paris will burn and Marseilles will be engulfed..." OL La Salette

  • "France will become Muslim, denying the divinity of Christ." - Marie-Julie Jahenny

I don't need to list a lot here - but the two quotes cited above came to mind this morning, which led me to research/review the messages.  Like I said, I'm wondering, and I'm praying.

Prayers for France, prayers for the victims of the terror attack in Nice ... and those to come.  

“What shall I say to you now, dear sons of France, who groan beneath the weight of persecution? The people who made an alliance with God at the baptismal font of Rheims will repent and return to its first vocation. Her faults will not remain unpunished, but she will never perish, the daughter of so many merits, so many sighs, and so many tears." - St. Pius X

Notre Dame du Mont Carmel,
 notre Lumière dans les ténèbres, 
priez pour nous pécheurs,


  1. I've never paid much attention to the La Salette thing but I might read up a little more on it now. As for Emmerich - I will take a pass.

    1. I agree with you about Emmerich - as does the Church.

      Another important matter to consider is that prophecies of doom can and do change - we see that in biblical accounts - today's first reading from Isaiah in fact. I'm just wondering, as I said - I can't do more than pray. In fact, lately I just pray for Our Lady's intentions - since everything is so confusing right now.

      The other thing to remember is that there was not an 'evil Council' nor is there a 'bad Mass' - the ordinary form of Mass is the Mass of the Church. When prophecy contradicts what the Magisterium has taught, that is the sign the prophecy or at least the interpretation of it is false.

  2. I remember reading some stuff from Jahenny a while back and getting completely scruped out - something all over trad sites condemning the Council and the pope at the time (Benedict, I think), as well as some "everyone is going to hell" stuff. I generally steer clear of almost ALL such things, as I don't have the wisdom to receive them.

    That said, did Jahenny actually say that? When did she die?

    1. It isn't verifiable she said that - it was found among some papers I guess. Also, in my comment to Angela I talked about the Council prophecies - which is a good reason to skip over that stuff or be wary of how it's interpreted. (See my quote from St. Hannibale) I too stay clear - but I used to read them and they have a way of sticking in my memory. Today many seem to use this stuff as ammo in their religious disputes and divisiveness.

      Jahenny died at the beginning or just before WWII I think.

    2. 1941 - to answer my own question, according to Wikipedia. She's also apparently *very* popular among French monarchist nationalists, and used to push that agenda. So I'd question whether some of the stuff she allegedly said has been given a "creative spin" over the years, or whether perhaps her own locutions were colored by the "more-monarchist-than-the-claimant" type of monarchism that was prevalent in Brittany - i.e. Exactly the kind of thing the priest you quoted mentions. And in any event, the church shows no signs of hopes in some great European monarch.

      Also, re: la Sallette - isn't the deal that the apparitions were declared authentic, but that there is no way to know how much of the text that was published is legit and how much is spurious?

  3. "France will become Muslim, denying the divinity of Christ"

    The eldest daughter of the Church, she may be lost but I cannot believe the Lord would abandon her completely. Perhaps she may suffer like Israel did in the OT, but he never left her alone as he raised up saints who loved him and brought Israel back to him.

    What's interesting is the fact that last night, after I watched the French president go on television, not one single word about God. He said they were in mourning but never asked for prayers or for God's protection for France or her people. It seems they instead rely on their own "strengths."

    Secularism sure is risky ... I went to bed thinking/wondering if France has been tossed over to her desires and is now paying the price.

    1. Good point - France is a secular nation. I posted the quote from Pius X to counter the 'France will become Muslim' quote.

      Mercury asked if it is real - it is in dispute. At least the wording should be questioned - I don't think 'Muslim' was in use then - and she most likely would have used 'Mohammadans' instead.

    2. From what I gather, it seems a lot of the apocalyptic stuff she predicted was about how secularism would lead to civil war in France.

    3. That's true too. The catch here for many prophecy addicts is when/how Ratzinger/Benedict mentioned in various commentaries on Fatima that prophecy may not be limited to a certain time frame, as in Fatima - though the events now seem to be in the past, etc. - he mentions that what is foretold could be ongoing or unfolding - still to come. So people who might otherwise dispute something a post-Conciliar pope will say or do, they'll pick out this bit of discernment to support their claims about other private revelations. Which is another reason not to get too wrapped up in this stuff or get distracted by the cultists who promote the far side of private revelations in their war on modernity.

      Religious people can make you crazy. ;)

  4. Merc - because of the unverifiable nature of both I stressed that I was beginning to wonder. The terror attacks in France and the attack by a Muslim in a church in Venice gave me pause to reconsider aspects of the secret of La Salette and the revelations of Jahenny.

    I can't do anything about them or launch a campaign to have them promulgated. LOL!

    I'm like anyone else looking for some kind of meaning and answer in the face of terror. I probably shouldn't have posted this.

    1. It is a worthy post regarding France and what many of us are wondering and will continue to wonder about until the Lord returns.

      In the meantime though, I can't just wonder ... prayer and work must come first. ^^

    2. Agreed. Prayer and work.

    3. Terry,

      Did you see this?

      Attempted military coup underway in Turkey


  5. I went back and reviewed the events and message of LaSalette. I have read about it before many years ago. I accidentally stumbled into a public shrine while in the Carribean and became curious. It is a rather mysterious event in the Marian apparition world. Mary is dressed very differently with a Russian tiara, white gown and, I think, flowers. The village is an isolated Alpine one far removed from the world. The focus does seem to be particular for France. There is a lot about faithful having fallen away, sin, penance and punishment. Famine seems central and illness to especially among children. Is Nice a foreshadowing? I do not know. This apparition has themes common to the others but different too.Mary is very sad, frequently crying. She tells the children that she cannot hold back the punishing arm of her son. Perhaps this is the main message: time has run out.

  6. And yet, the apparition that has seemed to characterize the Church more than any other is the Divine Mercy. There is still time for the world to repent and turn to God. Who knows how much good the little we can do - our feeble prayers and acts of mercy - is capable of?

    In any event, the actual chain of how the events of La Salette were recorded is so strange as to cast the entirety of the text into suspicion. The apparition was real - and the main thrust, to repent and turn to the Gospel - is the same as Fatima and others. But the details are not so clear.

    Also, do we really believe the world is sooo much worse now? Really? Over 100 million slaughtered between 1914 and the 1960s, with two world wars, communism, Nazism, etc.

    And do we forget that even when the world was "more Christian", what kind of a horrifying evil was perpetrated by the Atlantic slave trade, especially in Latin America by the Catholic nations of Spain, France, and Portugal? Or what the Catholic Belgians did in the Congo?

    Times are bad, but it's folly to think we live in the worst of them, or that all apparitions are speaking of NOW. In a sense they're always about now - the world is always in need of repentance, and always on the brink of awful cataclysmic chastisement. What can anyone honestly do but pray, go to Mass, hope in God, and love our neighbors?

    1. Amen. One important point St. JP II always made was that of personal conversion. That is something important to me that I never forget.

    2. Very good points Mercury. Yes, LaSalette was documented in a clumsy manner. The lives of the visionary children also unclear and poorly documented. Still, I find the image and message curious. A crying Modonna in unusual clothes with an Eastern aura means something, but not sure what?

    3. Hi, I have a cool book by Donal Foley, "Marian Apparitions, the Bible, and the Modern World", in which he explains, along with much else, "Lo !" the many and often (to me) very obscure 'costumes' of Our Lady, in light of the Old Testament. I keep it by my bed on a tottering pile of other books that I find daunting, but then, so much seems daunting to me lately. It is a great book. Lots on LaSalette.

    4. Thanks Consolata I will check that book out. Sounds fascinating.

    5. Wallace - the image and message are curious, but then again there's no way to know how much of it is actually real, and how much is made up by people with ulterior motives.

  7. A Texas father and his 11 year-old son among the dead in Nice.


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