Wednesday, September 04, 2013

This is very good: Fr. Paul Check on why chastity is an essential virtue for those with same-sex attraction—and for all Christians.



Fr. Paul Check is the director of Courage.

Catholic World Report has an excellent interview with Fr. Check on homosexuality, identity and the grace of chastity.  I will post some important points below.

Yesterday I touched on identity and 'causation' - Fr. Check does too in this interview.
The Catechism describes the same-sex inclination as objectively disordered. Now, we need to be plain, those words fall very hard on some ears because when they are heard it immediately sounds as if, or can sound as if, we are talking about a person—that a person is somehow disordered, not whole, not complete. But from the context of the Catechism, we can see that is not what is being said at all. What is being said is that the appetite, the erotic attraction to a member of the same sex, is out of harmony with human nature, it is misdirected. And because it is misdirected, and because we live in a world governed by cause and effect, then perhaps with some careful reflection we might be able to ascertain what it is that has caused that disordered attraction. 
On the recent decision by the Boy Scouts to allow openly homosexual scouts, but not leaders?
 My first concern is the boys who self-identify as “gay” or “homosexual.” And the question is: why are they doing that? If we go back to our prior discussion about identity, the Church is reluctant to label people in this way, and I think we want to do anything we can to avoid encouragement of that label, particularly for adolescents. The teenage years are a period of discovery and adventure in a certain sense and a time of coming to know oneself. And that has to be guided properly so that self-entanglement doesn’t take place. Many different things are happening at this age and it seems, at best, premature in that stage of development for someone to take a label for himself that is not reflective of his entire being. 
[...]

In Veritatis Splendor, Blessed Pope John Paul II says that we are in some degree changed by our actions, although we have a fixed human nature. The more a young person self-identifies, the more he is already making a choice in order to firm up that identity in his mind. The better hope is to caution a great reserve in this and to charitably and prudently establish trust with the young person and see what may lie behind the same-sex attraction, so that very real help can be given. But encouragement to act out, even if it is just self-identification—certainly encouragement to act out sexually—is not going to be good, but is going to reinforce what is in fact a false identity which can only lead them to unhappiness. The point is that the same-sex attraction or desire can never be acted upon consistent with our human nature and therefore it will always put the person at cross-purposes with himself or herself.  
"Nothing is outside god's providence."
We have to want to live chastely, cheerfully, and joyfully. The problem of pornography and the problem of contraception are things that are wide-spread within the Catholic community, including Mass-going Catholics. We have to examine our own conviction that chastity is essential for the joy of human relationships. We cannot expect that other people are only going to do what we say they should do, such as, “Don’t marry someone of the same sex.” We can hardly expect to be a compelling voice if we are not already convinced of the veracity of all that the Church teaches us, so we have to live that virtue cheerfully and joyfully. And if we do, other people will see it and be attracted to it.

We have to return to that kind of thinking of the early Christians, knowing full well that the current culture will be hostile. It gives us a spirit of purpose. We know it will be hard. Chesterton said, “Christians go gaily into the dark.” Now maybe we have to change that to “Christians go cheerfully into the dark” because of the way that word has been distorted, but Chesterton was right. A down-faced, angry Christian fulminating at the world is not going to be a good instrument of evangelization. We need that trust and confidence in God that St. Thérèse had and showed us so magnificently. We need that now and to try to live it, and we can! God’s grace will make it possible. - Catholic World Report

 Read the entire interview - it's very good.  My apologies for venting frustration over not being understood on this subject at times.  Thanks for putting up with me.
 
 

23 comments:

  1. We all get frustrated when it comes to this subject. I think it's telling, because one's sexuality is an integral part of who one is.

    The problem that I see here is that what the Church is saying about what orientation is, and what the sciences are saying, are two very different things. I'm not talking about causation, but what a sexual orientation actually is.

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  2. Not surprisingly, I agree with Thom. Our understanding of (and thus teaching on) human sexuality should be informed by the findings of science (reason) and actual human experience. Gay people can and do experience God's transforming love in their lives and relationships. Our tradition teaches that all these elements need to be considered when formulating our collective understanding of a range of issues -- including sexuality. I look forward to, and work toward, that day when such openness and consideration is indeed part of the learning/teaching process of our church.

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  3. After reading the last two comments, I think you're doing your purgatory here on earth.

    Oremus: "Thank you, dear Lord, for not asking me to keep a blog. Your donkey, Scott"

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    1. Conversation is purgatory? :)

      If that's the case, I'm in great shape, considering the death threat I received at my blog. ;)

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    2. Conversation can be the worst form of purgatory. Have you ever been the only male at a luncheon full of women? :-)

      I've yet to receive a single nasty e-mail much less a threat, and I think it's because I clearly advertise that I did a stretch in a max prison. Try prominently posting that on your blog...

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    3. Ha! Point taken. :)

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    4. Totally agree with Scott though men can be just as bad. Some of the old men who "work out," (and I use that term loosely) at the gym just want to be there to gossip with their friends...just go get coffee, or wait for the rest of us to go to work.

      This hits close to home as my head phones weren't working this a.m. so I had to listen to them as I worked out....that IS purgatory!

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  4. Can someone clarify this please?- if it is mandatory for single heterosexual Catholic's to remain chaste, in order to fully follow the teachings of Christ. Why is this not so for MM or FF's
    Please join me in praying the Rosary for Peace in Syria, Egypt and the Middle East and all areas of global tension and conflict. Our Lady Queen of Peace, Pray for us, who have recourse to thee.

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  5. While I of course disagree with Father's (and of course the Church's ) view on the whole disordered thing, I do agree with him on this

    "My first concern is the boys who self-identify as “gay” or “homosexual.” And the question is: why are they doing that? If we go back to our prior discussion about identity, the Church is reluctant to label people in this way, and I think we want to do anything we can to avoid encouragement of that label, particularly for adolescents. The teenage years are a period of discovery and adventure in a certain sense and a time of coming to know oneself."

    Totally agree and finally someone in the Church is talking about a sexual reality, that pre-teen and teen years are confusing, hormones are in overdrive and that people can confuse a fleeting sexual attraction to a full fledged sexual identity. I do agree that kids can grow out of it..not to be too personal but a lot of my early, uh "boyfriends," so to speak went on to get married, have kids, etc (uh, or was it me that turned them off?????) Kids can "experiment," when they are younger and move on to their full identity. If only all kids could have someone to talk to about their feelings that isnt automatically going to scream that they are "gay," (either in support or in condemnation.") Its confusing enough without putting a label on it. I also agree with him and the Church on the whole label thing even for adults..I am attracted to men, in love with one, but I hate the gay label, not out of any internalized homophobia, but because *I* am not my sexuality, its just part of me, as it is for all of us.

    Okay, so he looses me here:

    "The better hope is to caution a great reserve in this and to charitably and prudently establish trust with the young person and see what may lie behind the same-sex attraction, so that very real help can be given. But encouragement to act out, even if it is just self-identification—certainly encouragement to act out sexually—is not going to be good, but is going to reinforce what is in fact a false identity which can only lead them to unhappiness. "

    This scares me. Though I know he and others mean well, it conjures up images of someone counseling a kid to deny what his sexuality may be, like its a bad habit. I just envision some poor kid doing his darnedest to be "straight, " marrying, having kids and the thing just all goes to hell when he can't deny it anymore and a family is shattered. I can also tell Father that no, it does not necessarily lead to unhappiness..in that you are quite wrong. Better that all of us stop acting like we are in the Middle Ages and that everything "different," doesn't necesarily come from Satan, and allow everyone to develop their sexuality honestly, and respectfully and healthfully for ourselves and others.

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  6. Thom - since I got my computer fixed I can't reply to each comment separately - but in response to your statement about 'orientation' - it doesn't matter if you're black white or oriental - you can't have sex with boys.

    And Theraputix teacher, Church teaching on sexuality is for human beings - it doesn't apply to MMFF: "MMFF is not optimized for a single use (like either simulating proteins or small molecules), but tries to perform well for a wide range of organic chemistry calculations."

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    1. I hope that by "boys" you meant "men." Also, I'm not sure how that addresses my point.

      Either way, I'm glad your computer is fixed.

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  7. Mack - don't be scared.

    Did you know Michael would like to see you get your own blog? I didn't say it - he did.

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    1. Terry, I am scared...."hold me!" (Just kidding. )

      And lol on the blog thing...trying to get rid of me again are you?? (Plus when you have a blog you would have to be able to come up with new and creative posts of which I would at a loss...Im only good for responding. )

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  8. Thom - you brought up the oriental bit, not I. It isn't about race. I watched The Help.

    What?

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  9. Mack - No, Michael really said that - he did an entire post on his site dedicated to you.

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  10. Please explain further,

    it doesnt apply to MMFF?

    The clarification is requested/sought from M/M and or F/F's who disagree with celibacy, as single life mandates for all Catholic's.

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  11. Theraputix - I was just being nonsensical.

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  12. It's true, Mack. The link is here.

    Peace,

    Michael

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  13. I am flattered Michael, but as I posted on your blog...the most "licious," moments come from Terry, who lets us all play in his (too meticulous) yard despite thinking we are nuts!

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    1. Mack, Michael tells us you have "the calm and welcome presence of a first responder". By any chance would you be available to watch my toddler?

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  14. Fr. Check nails it. I'm ever amazed at how the Truth just resonates ... and the conference this year was a gift.

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  15. Lol...toddlers equal terror..got anything easier?

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