Hard to believe he was kicked out of a university setting....usually just about anything goes there.
For a similiar reason--is that maybe why Fr Corapi would speak in auditoriums and not church property?? I could easily see him getting the book especially when he would talk about sinnin'....
I don't understand how anyone can listen the visceral hatred that spews endlessly from Michael Voris's mouth. I don't see how people would want to believe the way he acts is anyway Jesus would want his followers to act. Even if I shared his views - which I don't - I would feel like he does more hurt to his own cause than good because he comes off as such a jerk. But as I have learned in I'm not to understand the ways of these Baptist/Evangelical-like hate spewing neo-con Catholics. God help them!
Anonymous above me, I agree, he does cause harm aswell, not sure if it is more harm than good, but I know at least a couple of non-catholics who are put off the faith, due to voices such as his. Not so much the content, as the tone. I can't imagine the man ever looking at his own behaviours or how he is cominmg accross to some. It's taken as read that he is right, if others don't get this, they are either anti-catholic or wishy washy. He, however, is still correct. That is the bit that scares me, reminds me of dictatorship. If he wants to get really 'Christlike, he would have kept schtuum over this event, that saw him stopped from speaking. Instead, he uses it to have another bash at Church authorities and Catholics who don't come up to his level (as he perceives it). Has he ever said anything uplifting about the faith, that would encourage converts? He mocks the advice to lead by example, given to him by fellow catholics and superiors. He only deals in skepticism, shame. The root of skepticism is hurt, it causes great mistrust amongst people.We forget that each of us, are fighting a daily battle, but it is not against flesh and blood, (each other)it is against the powers of darkness that seek to divide and conquer. We need to unite, not fight! I wonder who hurt him?
Just read this, over at Joe's(Defend us in Battle)who has a piece up about Voris.http://defend-us-in-battle.blogspot.com/2011/04/vortex-much-ado-about-michael-voris.html
"In 2006, St. Michael’s Media of Ferndale, Michigan, through its chief executive, Michael Voris, and his associates, requested approval of its apostolate and programming from the Archdiocese of Detroit. The Detroit archdiocese responded to their initial submission and gave them direction as to the additional information and steps that would need to be taken. At issue was, and is, compliance with our basic archdiocesan media protocols and those of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). While there have been some discussions, the matter with St. Michael’s Media remains unresolved; it is not an approved apostolate.
“In 2008, a Web-based video provider named RealCatholicTV.com was launched, with Michael Voris as the primary host, producer-writer and manager, utilizing new and archive program material produced and provided, primarily, by St. Michael’s Media. The RealCatholicTV enterprise has yet to present itself or receive approval of its apostolate and programming from the Detroit archdiocese.
“Therefore, the catechetical presentations, the analysis of Catholic teachings or positions, and the commentary on Church leadership presented by St. Michael’s Media and/or RealCatholicTV— be they audio, video, or exclusively Web-based— cannot be approved or endorsed by the archdiocese at this time.”
Ned McGrath Director of Communications Archdiocese of Detroit February 2011
So, we're not sinning, if we don't agree with him, or his tone! Whew, what a relief!
This same fellow who ends with Our Lord's prayer for unity (and all call for donations) was behind the "NOT the same church" video, which attempted to show a bunch of octogenarian Catholics pathetically stuck in the Sixties as the greatest threat since Martin Luther. I'm sure this whole controversy is feeding his coffers.
"Has he ever said anything uplifting about the faith, that would encourage converts?"
I think that's my biggest problem with Voris. Every day there is a new disaster. He gives the impression that the Catholic Faith is simply adherence to orthodoxy, as he has described it, though nothing else.
Shadowlands - it is not a sin to disagree with Michael Voris - or other media personalities.
Personally, I think he's a well intentioned, sincere man, who speaks his mind. Very often I agree with what he has to say, although I sometimes cringe at the way he says it. I totally understand why some diocese would say he doesn't speak for them. If he were a priest they could silence him. And as I once said about an outspoken priest online - he could never become a bishop.
I do not make much of any online personality or spokesmen from popular culture - religious or otherwise, priest or layperson.
Something still does not add up with Michael Voris, I can see it in his face. I saw him recently in a one hour interview with Canadian TV talk show host Michael Coren. And the always "half-empty-the-sky-is-falling-down glass" fails to hold my interest.
" And the always "half-empty-the-sky-is-falling-down glass" fails to hold my interest."
Since no one else seems to think there is a crises in the church with falling Mass attendance and decreased visits of the sacraments, maybe Mr. Voris is a breath of fresh air to some. He holds my interest because I see what he sees. I used to sit in the pew and listen to everything but solid Catholic teaching. And then I left for 12 years. Why stay if one church is as good as another? I see people leaving, leaving, leaving. Vocations are down. Mr. Voris is guilty of proclaiming that the emporer isn't wearing any clothes. And some of you don't like the way he says it?
Is the Church who and what she claims she is? If so, let us bodly proclaim that truth. Let us point out inconsistencies and errors within and outside of the Church. Otherwise, the hell with it.
Voris makes some valid points. He's singing to the choir though. He might win over a few people, but I think he is scaring more away from the faith than he is bringing them to it. He is essentially rallying disaffected individuals into a larger group where theycan commiserate.
When it comes to the bishops and their inaction with regards to dissenters speaking on Catholic campuses, I could scream.
Yet, I also do not feel it is for me, or anyone else to take jabs in a public way at the bishops. He tends to paint a picture with a very broad brush.
Are we so foolish as to believe that God does not see the failings of certain bishops? Ought we stoop so low as to behave like people with no faith in God to bring about correction through our most heartfelt prayers for the bishops rather than demonize them online?
This is the problem I have with the Voris method.
Even if it has a positive effect, the ends do not justify the means. And, where sin abounds grace abounds all the more, so if good comes of it all it is not necessarily pleasing to God.
Then there is the money aspect. If he didn't have the Vortex, could he get enough viewers for the remaining content he has that is good? That stuff isn't controversial so it doesn't have the nearly the same level of visitors. What does that say about us and what we seek online? I don't think he can make it without his tabloid style. I'm more inclined to think Voris
oops. Cut off at the end there. Disregard last sentence.
I was going to say that he seems to be stuck n the 80's or early 90's. The picture he paints of Detroit would have been correct 15 years ago. It's unfair to judge the new bishop based on Detroits well known troubled past.
Google archdiocese of Detroit and American Catholic council. That statement against this group of truly heterodox dissenters coming to Detroit never would have seen the light of day under past administrations, but Vigneron took a strong stand.
I am supposed to live in poverty. Mr. Voris does not necessarily have to. Do not begrudge a laborer his wage.
That said, I find his style a bit off-putting. But I'm not going to begrudge the man for trying to make a buck to support himself (I don't know if he has a family).
Suzanne--I am not saying that there are no crises in the church. Far from it, but there is a lot of good too. And you never hear that from him. Never anything to uplift or praise, and most frightening, never a word that God can change hearts and heal the things that are wrong, only that the "I'm-mad-as-h*ll-and-won't-put-up-with-it-anymore Catholics" can.
I don't begrudge any labourers their wage. I do not intend to pay or subscribe to Catholic lay men selling the gospel according to their own misgivings, especially if the Church authorities have suspended their activities on church property, or indeed their ministries. Once I know a religious person is selling his wares, I think it is very important to consider the financial motive of their 'labour'.
Freely you have received, freely give.
Do I charge for my gems, here in this comment section? No. Actually Tery, I'd been meaning to talk to you about a raise? This blog would become a heterodox minefield without my as yet unvalued input ;)
I think I wasn't clear. I am not saying ends justify the means, or any such thing. I'm not sure where that comes from. Perfectly charitable and gentle folks also peddle their wares to support themselves and/or their ministries (e.g., those Trappists and their bourbouny-goodness laced fruitcakes!). I receive stipends for priestly supply work on top of my regular ministry. Am I in it for a profit motive? No. I can see how someone could say that "All Father thinks about is money." But my community does have bills to pay, and I *am* a mendicant.
Michael is single. He quit a lucrative career in local television news and sunk all his personal savings into St Michael's Media (forerunner to RealCatholicTV, and which still is in operation). For several years, he produced a half-hour show called "The One True Faith", with a live studio audience, aired on a local Detroit TV station. He still produces the show, but it no longer airs because the station upped their fees beyond his ability to pay.
He's not getting rich from his apostolate, nor is that his goal.
I'm not going to say anything else about MV. He is a personal friend, so my opinions will admittedly be taken as biased. Whatever - I know things concerning him and his apostolate that the general Innerweb public are not privy to, and whether or not that means anything to anyone here is irrelevant to me. And I'm sure to Michael as well. He's doing what he believes God wants him to do.
Did he reallyt JUST compare himself to St. Paul?
ReplyDeletesmh...
But hey, you can pay to be a Premium Subscriber.
ReplyDeleteTo be really, really Orthodox Catholic there is a subscription fee or a tuppence owed. ;)
I really like him. I have been marginalized by my Archdiocese while liturgical dancing, reiki meditating, pro-abortion nuns are recognized positively.
ReplyDeleteI get where Mr. Voris is coming from and I like what he has to say.
Suzanne
Suzanne - I agree. I like what he has to say as well. He is obviously having an effect.
ReplyDeleteHard to believe he was kicked out of a university setting....usually just about anything goes there.
ReplyDeleteFor a similiar reason--is that maybe why Fr Corapi would speak in auditoriums and not church property?? I could easily see him getting the book especially when he would talk about sinnin'....
Sara
No he did not compare himself to St. Paul.
ReplyDeleteAnd, I have seen this situation played out too. Too many times.
I don't understand how anyone can listen the visceral hatred that spews endlessly from Michael Voris's mouth. I don't see how people would want to believe the way he acts is anyway Jesus would want his followers to act. Even if I shared his views - which I don't - I would feel like he does more hurt to his own cause than good because he comes off as such a jerk. But as I have learned in I'm not to understand the ways of these Baptist/Evangelical-like hate spewing neo-con Catholics. God help them!
ReplyDeleteJP
Anonymous above me, I agree, he does cause harm aswell, not sure if it is more harm than good, but I know at least a couple of non-catholics who are put off the faith, due to voices such as his. Not so much the content, as the tone.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine the man ever looking at his own behaviours or how he is cominmg accross to some. It's taken as read that he is right, if others don't get this, they are either anti-catholic or wishy washy. He, however, is still correct. That is the bit that scares me, reminds me of dictatorship. If he wants to get really 'Christlike, he would have kept schtuum over this event, that saw him stopped from speaking. Instead, he uses it to have another bash at Church authorities and Catholics who don't come up to his level (as he perceives it).
Has he ever said anything uplifting about the faith, that would encourage converts? He mocks the advice to lead by example, given to him by fellow catholics and superiors. He only deals in skepticism, shame. The root of skepticism is hurt, it causes great mistrust amongst people.We forget that each of us, are fighting a daily battle, but it is not against flesh and blood, (each other)it is against the powers of darkness that seek to divide and conquer. We need to unite, not fight!
I wonder who hurt him?
Just read this, over at Joe's(Defend us in Battle)who has a piece up about Voris.http://defend-us-in-battle.blogspot.com/2011/04/vortex-much-ado-about-michael-voris.html
ReplyDelete"In 2006, St. Michael’s Media of Ferndale, Michigan, through its chief executive, Michael Voris, and his associates, requested approval of its apostolate and programming from the Archdiocese of Detroit. The Detroit archdiocese responded to their initial submission and gave them direction as to the additional information and steps that would need to be taken. At issue was, and is, compliance with our basic archdiocesan media protocols and those of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). While there have been some discussions, the matter with St. Michael’s Media remains unresolved; it is not an approved apostolate.
“In 2008, a Web-based video provider named RealCatholicTV.com was launched, with Michael Voris as the primary host, producer-writer and manager, utilizing new and archive program material produced and provided, primarily, by St. Michael’s Media. The RealCatholicTV enterprise has yet to present itself or receive approval of its apostolate and programming from the Detroit archdiocese.
“Therefore, the catechetical presentations, the analysis of Catholic teachings or positions, and the commentary on Church leadership presented by St. Michael’s Media and/or RealCatholicTV— be they audio, video, or exclusively Web-based— cannot be approved or endorsed by the archdiocese at this time.”
Ned McGrath
Director of Communications
Archdiocese of Detroit
February 2011
So, we're not sinning, if we don't agree with him, or his tone! Whew, what a relief!
This same fellow who ends with Our Lord's prayer for unity (and all call for donations) was behind the "NOT the same church" video, which attempted to show a bunch of octogenarian Catholics pathetically stuck in the Sixties as the greatest threat since Martin Luther. I'm sure this whole controversy is feeding his coffers.
ReplyDelete"Has he ever said anything uplifting about the faith, that would encourage converts?"
ReplyDeleteI think that's my biggest problem with Voris. Every day there is a new disaster. He gives the impression that the Catholic Faith is simply adherence to orthodoxy, as he has described it, though nothing else.
Shadowlands - it is not a sin to disagree with Michael Voris - or other media personalities.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think he's a well intentioned, sincere man, who speaks his mind. Very often I agree with what he has to say, although I sometimes cringe at the way he says it. I totally understand why some diocese would say he doesn't speak for them. If he were a priest they could silence him. And as I once said about an outspoken priest online - he could never become a bishop.
I do not make much of any online personality or spokesmen from popular culture - religious or otherwise, priest or layperson.
Something still does not add up with Michael Voris, I can see it in his face. I saw him recently in a one hour interview with Canadian TV talk show host Michael Coren. And the always "half-empty-the-sky-is-falling-down glass" fails to hold my interest.
ReplyDeleteAce
" And the always "half-empty-the-sky-is-falling-down glass" fails to hold my interest."
ReplyDeleteSince no one else seems to think there is a crises in the church with falling Mass attendance and decreased visits of the sacraments, maybe Mr. Voris is a breath of fresh air to some. He holds my interest because I see what he sees. I used to sit in the pew and listen to everything but solid Catholic teaching. And then I left for 12 years. Why stay if one church is as good as another? I see people leaving, leaving, leaving. Vocations are down. Mr. Voris is guilty of proclaiming that the emporer isn't wearing any clothes. And some of you don't like the way he says it?
Is the Church who and what she claims she is? If so, let us bodly proclaim that truth. Let us point out inconsistencies and errors within and outside of the Church. Otherwise, the hell with it.
Suzanne
Voris makes some valid points. He's singing to the choir though. He might win over a few people, but I think he is scaring more away from the faith than he is bringing them to it. He is essentially rallying disaffected individuals into a larger group where theycan commiserate.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to the bishops and their inaction with regards to dissenters speaking on Catholic campuses, I could scream.
Yet, I also do not feel it is for me, or anyone else to take jabs in a public way at the bishops. He tends to paint a picture with a very broad brush.
Are we so foolish as to believe that God does not see the failings of certain bishops? Ought we stoop so low as to behave like people with no faith in God to bring about correction through our most heartfelt prayers for the bishops rather than demonize them online?
This is the problem I have with the Voris method.
Even if it has a positive effect, the ends do not justify the means. And, where sin abounds grace abounds all the more, so if good comes of it all it is not necessarily pleasing to God.
Then there is the money aspect. If he didn't have the Vortex, could he get enough viewers for the remaining content he has that is good? That stuff isn't controversial so it doesn't have the nearly the same level of visitors. What does that say about us and what we seek online? I don't think he can make it without his tabloid style.
I'm more inclined to think Voris
oops. Cut off at the end there. Disregard last sentence.
ReplyDeleteI was going to say that he seems to be stuck n the 80's or early 90's. The picture he paints of Detroit would have been correct 15 years ago. It's unfair to judge the new bishop based on Detroits well known troubled past.
Google archdiocese of Detroit and American Catholic council. That statement against this group of truly heterodox dissenters coming to Detroit never would have seen the light of day under past administrations, but Vigneron took a strong stand.
I am supposed to live in poverty. Mr. Voris does not necessarily have to. Do not begrudge a laborer his wage.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I find his style a bit off-putting. But I'm not going to begrudge the man for trying to make a buck to support himself (I don't know if he has a family).
Suzanne--I am not saying that there are no crises in the church. Far from it, but there is a lot of good too. And you never hear that from him. Never anything to uplift or praise, and most frightening, never a word that God can change hearts and heal the things that are wrong, only that the "I'm-mad-as-h*ll-and-won't-put-up-with-it-anymore Catholics" can.
ReplyDeleteFriar--nope, he has no family to support.
...and even if one does have a family support, ends don't necessarily justify means.
ReplyDeleteWhat's that old cliche about loving mercy and walking humbly with one's God?
;)
well his hair is certainly from the 90's. his face wants a new part.
ReplyDelete"Do not begrudge a laborer his wage."
ReplyDeleteI don't begrudge any labourers their wage. I do not intend to pay or subscribe to Catholic lay men selling the gospel according to their own misgivings, especially if the Church authorities have suspended their activities on church property, or indeed their ministries.
Once I know a religious person is selling his wares, I think it is very important to consider the financial motive of their 'labour'.
Freely you have received, freely give.
Do I charge for my gems, here in this comment section? No. Actually Tery, I'd been meaning to talk to you about a raise? This blog would become a heterodox minefield without my as yet unvalued input ;)
LOL! Best comment ever, shadowL!
ReplyDeleteI think I wasn't clear. I am not saying ends justify the means, or any such thing. I'm not sure where that comes from. Perfectly charitable and gentle folks also peddle their wares to support themselves and/or their ministries (e.g., those Trappists and their bourbouny-goodness laced fruitcakes!). I receive stipends for priestly supply work on top of my regular ministry. Am I in it for a profit motive? No. I can see how someone could say that "All Father thinks about is money." But my community does have bills to pay, and I *am* a mendicant.
ReplyDeleteNo - the hair is still cool - I still see it on Sartorialist and Justin Bieber before he got it cut.
ReplyDelete(You are so dealing with an intellectual when you come to this blog! LOL!)
Michael is single. He quit a lucrative career in local television news and sunk all his personal savings into St Michael's Media (forerunner to RealCatholicTV, and which still is in operation). For several years, he produced a half-hour show called "The One True Faith", with a live studio audience, aired on a local Detroit TV station. He still produces the show, but it no longer airs because the station upped their fees beyond his ability to pay.
ReplyDeleteHe's not getting rich from his apostolate, nor is that his goal.
I'm not going to say anything else about MV. He is a personal friend, so my opinions will admittedly be taken as biased. Whatever - I know things concerning him and his apostolate that the general Innerweb public are not privy to, and whether or not that means anything to anyone here is irrelevant to me. And I'm sure to Michael as well. He's doing what he believes God wants him to do.
And may God bless him for it.
Thanks very much Larry for defending MV's honor. Any friend of yours is a friend of mine.
ReplyDeleteUnless they don't want to be. That's cool too.
ReplyDelete