"Are we prepared to promote conditions in which the living contact with God can be reestablished? For our lives today have become godless to the point of complete vacuity. God is no longer with us in the conscious sense of the word. He is denied, ignored, excluded from every claim to have a part in our daily life." - Alfred Delp, S.J.

Friday, September 23, 2016

Palmar de Troya ... sorry I brought it up ...

A Basilica to make Traditionalists swoon.
"It’s likely that unless you’re involved in the world of fringe-Catholicism 
you’ve never heard of the Palmarians, 
and even in Spain they’ve largely been forgotten." - Nick Rider

But it seems it may be one of the best apparition cons in the history of Catholicism.

Today is the first day I ever came across a comparison with Medjugorje - although I knew their was some weird association with Garabandal.  It also seems to be the origin of the rumor that Pope Paul VI was drugged and held a prisoner in the Vatican, replaced by a double.  I have to admit I never paid any attention to the Palmarians, and had no idea they had a huge basilica and so much money to build it.  I'll just post some photos and a link to a rather good history on Palmar de Troya.

Clemente with his stigmata.  
Look familiar?

In ecstasy.

In case you never heard of this one, visit Journeys to the Bizarre.  It should be made into a movie like Dan brown's novels are ...

The impenetrable isolation of the Palmarians’ compound – like an ultra-Catholic version of a Bond villain’s lair – is one thing, but beyond that, the more you discover about it, the weirder, more bizarre, more entangled the story gets. It begins in 1968, when four young girls claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary while out picking flowers in the field of La Alcaparrosa, where the Basilica now stands. In the ever-fervid religious atmosphere of Andalusia the spot soon began to attract pilgrims and devotees, including some from the official Catholic clergy, and there were reports of miraculous cures and other phenomena. Among the crowds flocking to the spot were Clemente Domínguez, a Seville insurance agent, and his best friend Manuel Alonso Corral, a lawyer. Several things are said about the early life of Clemente: that as a little boy his ultra-devout mother always dressed him as a priest, that his only game was playing at saying Mass, but also that in his teens he was a flamboyant member of Seville’s then deep-underground gay scene. At El Palmar Clemente not only claimed to have had his own visions, a much bigger deal than those of the girls, but also to bear the stigmata or wounds of Christ, dramatically exhibiting his bleeding flesh. The official Church began to feel the phenomenon was getting out of hand and the Archbishop of Seville disauthorized the visions at El Palmar, especially those of Clemente, but he was unfazed. On one day in 1970 he supposedly entered into a mystical trance in front of 30,000 people. A key point came in 1972 when Corral, who always seems to have been the brains of the operation, used the first of many unexplained ‘donations’ to buy the Alcaparrosa estate. From then on he and Clemente effectively ‘owned’ the visions, and the original four girls were forgotten. - Full story here.

Papa Clemente after going blind.
I wonder if Fr. Z gets his hats from Palmar?

Vestments to die for.

San Francisco Franco.
They canonized him.


  1. Wow ... the Church has so many arms and some truly on the fringe. I have a hard enough time getting to say my daily prayers and trying to forgive let alone trying to keep up with all of this ... gracias a Dios I don't have to.

    BTW, Terry have you been following this?


    It is heavy reading but I am trying to read it.

    1. I just posted this as fun.

      I like the article you link to but I see nothing to criticize in Pope Francis - so I haven't read everything. Dr. Mirius is solid however.

    2. I know Dr. Mirus is solid. Aside from your blog, his is one of very few I trust to say anything balanced about Papa Francis.

      Anyway, fall has begun, the holidays are soon upon us and the Year of Mercy will soon be over. Lots to prepare and pray for.

      Have a great weekend!

  2. There seems to be a resemblance between a certain alphabetical priest and Papa Clemente...

  3. " It also seems to be the origin of the rumor that Pope Paul VI was drugged and held a prisoner in the Vatican, replaced by a double."

    Mgr Lefèbvre remarked that Paul VI did not seem drugged.

    If one looks at Cardinal Siri, he does sometimes seem under the weather, as if receiving "medication". So, the false prophet (as I now think he was) might have been correct on some things, if Siri was Pope.

    If I now think Franco might not have been a saint (he was after all a friend of a shrink!) they could be right about the other fascist saint, José Antonio.

    I am an ex-Palmarian, and I have probably got SOME rumours about homosexuality about me due to the fact that Clemente Domínguez / "Gregorio XVII" seemed to have bisexual tendencies after his supposed miraculous conversion.

    I learned that about a few seconds to half a minute after ditching him as Pope, since he was also, apparently, a believer in more dimensions than 3.

    "Antichrist sees the world from the 4th dimension, but the Very Pure Virgin from the 8th dimension."

    Fourth? Eighth? Three! God put a Trinitarian signature in space!

    So, I was no longer considering him as a Pope when hearing of that sad débacle.

    1. Thanks for the added information - I was just surprised how large the basilica is and how well appointed with traditional baroque embellishment and statuary. It's a fascinating story.

  4. The weird connexion with Garabandal is that Palmarians consider it a valid apparition.

    1. Whatever happened to the original seers at Palmar? Before Clememnte came on site?

      As for the 'homosexual' stuff - that is very strange to me, since Franco sent such types to mental institutions - did he not?

      Not to worry about your reputation here - you made it clear that you are not that way.

      God bless!

    2. "Whatever happened to the original seers at Palmar?"

      I don't know.

      "As for the 'homosexual' stuff - that is very strange to me, since Franco sent such types to mental institutions - did he not?"

      It seems he did, which is a reason I think he was no saint.

      Not meaning sodomy is sane, but meaning insanity is in action, not to such a degree in the man as to make him irresponsible for it, usually.

      Now, it seems they managed to keep it a secret and victims were "consenting adults", except they were nuns and monks consenting under religious obedience.

      Also, Franco was probably angry at Vatican II for Dignitatis Humanae forcing him to give Orthodox and Protestants religious freedom, so he revenged himself by giving Palmar de Troya religious freedom too.

  5. That basilica is gross. Too many towers, or something. Just has a diabolical look for me. YMMV.

  6. i have a vague memory of having read about this group before. I see them as monarchists. Liking very much authority, gold and gilt (also guilt).i always find architecture interesting so they have a certain appeal to me. Thanks for pointing them out again. The diversity in the world is amazing and wonderful.


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