Monday, December 09, 2013

Comments about stuff other people are saying....

So anyway, Fr. Z wrote about talking like a girl.

I hate it that he has more screen time than I do and can write about all that stuff I set aside to write about when I get some time.  Oh to be a priest with nothing to do.  What?

More men speaking in girl's dialect ...

That's the title of the article on a study conducted by a linguist at the University of California, which the BBC reported on here.  It's called uptalk.
More young men in California rise in pitch at the end of their sentences when talking, new research shows. 
This process is known as "uptalk" or "valleygirl speak" and has in the past been associated with young females, typically from California or Australia. 
But now a team says that this way of speaking is becoming more frequent among men. - BBC
Finally someone is pointing this out.  I've noticed it for a long time in younger men - and not just amongst gay men.  You hear guys talk like that in interviews, on the news, or on late night talk shows.  Voice inflection amongst young men, and fast talking conversations amongst guys can sometimes sound a bit how women talk amongst themselves.  For instance, sometimes when I'm at the store or some other public space - even church, I can't help but overhear conversations.  Many times I look around to see who is speaking and very often it's a guy with his kids or with his wife or girlfriend.  I look around because the guy is talking that way. 

Maybe guys just feel they are wrong all the time?  Especially when speaking to women.  Maybe they use the uptalk to demonstrate they are not being sarcastic, hostile or aggressive with their significant other?
"One possibility is that this is an extension of a pitch pattern that we actually find in most varieties of English which is used when you're making a statement but you're [also] asking indirectly for the interlocutor to confirm if they are with you," Prof Arvaniti said. - BBC
I first noticed the trend when guys came back from Europe.  I'm not sure it is always related to  valleygirl speak, nor is it necessarily related to the 'feminization' of men - yet both of those categories may derive from the way boys are educated these days, as well as the influence of pop culture and media.  I have to wonder however, if the study overlooks a European connection - when Americans attempt to emulate the accent of some of their European counterparts when they speak English.  "Non?"  "Oui?"

I've also noted the inflection used by people who worked in India, and most especially those who worked with the Missionaries of Charity.  I had several religious friends who did the uptalk thing back then. 

Now everybody does it.   (No big deal, but that's all I wanted to say on the study.)

The cassock coat.
The black traditional cassock deserves decent outerwear.
Here we have a long, full trench which stops
about 6 inches from the hem of the cassock.
The trench coat is constructed of soft black microfiber
with a contrasting french khaki lining.
Extra wide collar and belted (not shown).

Fr. Z again: How to upbraid an outspoken deacon... Soooo many thoughts and responses. ^

Play the celibate-continence card:  Remind the pertinacious permanent deacon of the “canons about sexual continence for all clerics, including deacons?”

Fr. Z can get a little bitchy sometimes, and his commenters can be worse.  The post was about cassocks and Fr. Z gets pretty defensive about that stuff.  However - when it comes to permanent deacons, I think people need to be a lot more respectful and avoid any sign of clericalist snobbery related to hierarchical status.  A couple of commenters to Fr. Z's post addressed the problem this way:
adeacon says:

I would like to chime in. It seems that this conversation is becoming anti-deacon – because of the comments of one deacon about cassocks. The deacon should probably have kept his thoughts to himself. Still, we know comments like this come from all sides – deacons to priests, priests to deacons. Who here is not a sinner?
I am a permanent deacon. The Lord called me to this vocation, the same as he called all my ordained brothers. I am not a liberal heretic. I have no issue with cassocks. I feed the “poorest of the poor.” I am conservative – as many of my deacon brothers are. Some are not conservative. Still, we give our all for Mother Church. Please, love your deacons.
Subdeacon Joseph says:

I am a married priest who always wears the cassock whenever I serve. I also have children. There are 22 particular churches within the Catholic Church who ALL have married priests, and in all of these particular churches the cassock is the norm, not the Roman collar. There is only one particular church within the Catholic Church that suppresses their priests from marriage, and canonically expects their deacons to abstain from normal and healthy relations in marriage, and that particular church is the Roman church. Bringing up “canons about sexual continence for all clerics, including deacons?” is painting with a real broad brush, and offensive to the majority of particular churches in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Fr. Z's post was about cassocks of course and what to say to a deacon who upbraided a priest for wearing one.  Oh the persecution!  Why does something like that have to turn into a bitch fight? 

Cassocks - wear them if you want.  It's like chapel veils - wear them if you want.

I wear jeans to Mass, and I don't care what people think.

These are stupid issues.

Chinese lady say:
"I like a man in uniform.
My man wear Changshan.
Notice the lift in her voice?



  1. I dont know how it is by you Terry but I know of a priest where I live that has been called before the bishop for the very wearing of a cassock to the reasons Fr. Z listed. I dont have a problem if they choose to wear one or not, I only want them to distinguish themselves so I can offer thanks and even bother them when Im screwed up...which is selfish, granted, but necessary for a screw up like me

  2. That's too bad - I hope the bishop supported him. Here they wear cassocks in seminary and priests at key churches wear them as well. I've developed a renewed appreciation for the cassock - I'm just not a fan of capes.

  3. I wear jeans too #ohthehorror

  4. +JMJ+

    I wear FitFlop sandals.

    1. I wish I was there! It was -10 here this morning.

  5. Chapel veils are not something that emerged out of fashion or personal piety preferences:

    People are sometimes concerned with what others wear because of what is meant or conveyed therein. It is not enough for us, I don't believe, to make it about "God and me" at the Mass, when it leads to an indifferentism. There is liturgical snobbishness just as there is the cult of the 'poor' or 'humble' that puts own its own airs of distinction.

    1. That is an amazing post! Thanks for indicating it.

    2. You're welcome. Here is another - what insight:

  6. unfortunately the bishop sides with the idea that its not pastoral, so he gets hounded, but appeals to the Bishops decision in the 1990's so he maintains it, but its awkward...I agree with the cape thing, trying to be chesterton

    1. It's not pastoral - I don't get that. What a strange idea.

  7. Anonymous3:05 PM

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  8. Maybe Z wants to be a Valleypriest?

  9. Thank you for this post. My thoughts exactly. The world is going to hell and this is what is all important? (Voice raised). In the words of an Irish priest from Boston I knew, "Tell it to somebody who cares."

    1. I so agree that while some will fuss over their appearance and whatnot, who can ponder such trivial matters when churches are desecrated and burned, Bishops kidnapped as are now, nuns from sacred places. Who can argue over who can wear and not wear cassocks when our brothers and sisters are denied their dignity to worship God in their own church which has stood centuries?

      I am surprised more in-depth analysis was not given to the irrelevant topic oh say, such as wrinkles, number of creases, whatever.

      I am happy Papa Francis was named Person of the Year! I know he will smile in his humility and give all the credit and glory to our Lord Jesus Christ and to our Lady, who loves her little son so much. I watched the General Audience today...50,000 strong! All joyful and so many babies wrapped as pure bundles of joy! Papa Francis looked happy too! Loved the message he gave all of us regarding La Morenita...La Virgencita de Guadalupe!

      Viva la Virgen de Guadalupe!

      Viva il Papa!

  10. Speaking of the world going to Hell and the unbelievable priorities of some, consider the treatment of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, detailed here:

  11. That Chinese-lady is very wise and "cute". I've grown accustomed to her face!! Wish she didn't smoke, though. God bless Terry and all yr. visitors here and a blessed, happy Advent-Season to you, too..


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