But to be fair, I did read Mark Shea's post on it. And one of his friends, John C. Wright, wrote response to him that I think really nails the point:
http://www.scifiwright.com/2011/10/get-a-job/
I agree with Mr. Wright, though I am a fan of Mark Shea. I think we need to give Cain the benefit of the doubt in understanding that he is responding to the OSW hippies, who are mostly white, middle class hippies who want nothing than the complete overthrow of the US system, period.
I think the point is that poverty, at least for able-bodied young folk in this country, is not to be blamed on others. I don't know about it being "your own damn fault" - my parents were always pretty damn poor, but they never blamed it on anyone, and they just worked harder. They also raised us to not hate the rich, since it leads nowhere - and it most emphatically does not.
While it is true that the disparity between rich and poor is too high, what does it mean and how can it be fixed? Does anyone really think that they would gain the least bit by confiscating money from those rich bankers? I think the proper response should be to work for oneself and for the less fortunate with one's own means, and let God judge the super-wealthy.
But in our system, just taking their wealth, or bitching about it, will not make anyone richer. It's not like there's a bunch of gold coins out there and they have x percentage of the gold coins. It's not like taking their gold coins will mean that there are more gold coins to go around. That's not how wealth works at all.
So are the wealthy Wall Street bankers often a bunch of selfish, greedy, Mammon-worshipping pr***s? Yeah, probably. But the solution proposed by the Rage Against the Machine fan club will only make matters worse. Much worse.
A better answer would be to convert the hearts of the Wall Street bankers, wouldn't it?
"I think the proper response should be to work for oneself and for the less fortunate with one's own means, and let God judge the super-wealthy." -Mercury
This would be the 'proper' response, unfortunately the Government has laden small - midsize businesses with so much red tape including insurance requirements, that it is hard to do the 'proper' thing. I have relatives with small businesses and I know what they are under. I have witnessed a neighbor with a small business forced to sell their home at a loss because of the poor economy. The heavy taxes on both personal property & the business certainly played their part. Perhaps they would have been able to weather the economic storm if their taxes had been reduced.
I agree the Wall Street Rage-in is NOT the answer either.
I heard Herman Cain's talk on Fox...quite interesting... I remember growing up in southern California in the 70's when the Vietnamese boat people were give refuge..with nothing more than the clothes on their backs...yeah the government gave them a bit of help,but still VERY poor people... but they enrolled their kids in school learned English, started a business, maybe a restaurant where the kids worked after school, and made something of themselves, no sitting back with tons of excuses...they took advantage of the American dream,and their kids went on to be validictorians in school and excelling in college..
My sis in law also came froma poor white trash family in Arkansas, she got out of the environment, got her GED and eventually went to college and became an architect...but again only minimal handouts, it was her own hard work.
Like Mr Cain says, you can be whatever you want to be, as long as you don't sit back and say woe is me and expect everone to give you handouts. It takes blood, sweat and tears at times, but it can be done.
And opportunity...the OWS group is a pretty rag-tag, incoherent bunch, but there are some protesters among them who are making good points and whose frustration I understand. Corporate America needs to start creating opportunity instead of hoarding cash. It's not good for our young people, young men especially, to not have an _opportunity_ to work.
My two youngest graduated into this economy, they're working like dogs at dead end jobs they'd rather not have, and I sense a growing frustration and tension in them -- in my son particularly.
My daughter works a 13 hour day five days a week, combining two jobs, just to make ends meet. My son grits his teeth and puts up with what can only be called abusive behavior by his boss, has no medical insurance, no paid vacation, and rarely gets even holidays off.
They're not slackers by any means. But they and their friends are angry, frustrated, exhausted, and tired of the sneering crap they get from the sixty and seventy somethings who are living in the lap of luxury but won't retire and won't create opportunity -- and who are collecting social security as well. There's something not right there.
Sara--in the 80's during the OTHER Recession that no one seems to talk about--that was ME...worked as a waitress making 25 cents an hour plus tips, worked as a road flagger in the summer in the blazing hot CA sun, and as a lifeguard at the city pool, times when I had to decide wheter to put food in my stomach or gas in my car, juggling college classes when I could because I KNEW that was the only way I could get ahead..then there was no unemployment, very little welfare, you shared homes with a bunch of ugly roommates....but I knew it was only temporary..that I wasn't goign to live like that the rest of my life..the one month I spent living out of my car convinced me it couldn't get any worse..did a stint in the military to get the GI Bill to help me finish college...and I MADE it...
I also had grandparents who lived through the Depression, and always kept their stories in the back of my mind, that it COULD be worse...I could always get a job waitressing or cocktailing at the local bar. It wasnt' easy, but it sure did make me appreciate the success that I'm at now..
And opportunity--sometime you have to MAKE your own opportunity,..
Case in point--I was picking up my sick kitty from the vet..while I was paying th e bill a lady who looked to be in her 40's came in and said she was here to pick up Scruffy (or whatever)...turns out that she runs her own service where she ferries dogs and cats to the vet, and fru fru dogs to their grooming appointments, for people who can't drive or who are at work. Wow what a deal...the receptionist said yeas she's got more business than she can handle..and talk about practically NO investment..all you need is a reliable car and halfway like dogs and cats. And a business plan. People love it because now you don't have to schedule pet appts around your work hours..like I have to...
Opportunity is indeed out there, you can't wait for it to fall in your lap.
"Corporate America needs to start creating opportunity instead of hoarding cash. It's not good for our young people, young men especially, to not have an _opportunity_ to work."
They aren't going to risk their money if there is uncertainty about how much of a hit they will take with Obamacare, and how much they will be hit with increasing regs and taxes. I'm guessing that those who might be in a position to hire might decide that it is prudent to see what the future brings (presidential election) before committing themselves. Can't say that I blame them...
This article pretty much sums up my views on the protest: http://articles.ocregister.com/2011-10-07/news/30258805_1_debt-forgiveness-steve-jobs-iphone
Oh, and Sara -- please don't use foul language here. It is incredibly rude and vulgar, and tells me more about you than I needed to know (are you really unable to express yourself without resorting to such obscenities?). You've done yourself a serious disservice.
Please comment with charity and avoid ad hominem attacks. I exercise the right to delete comments I find inappropriate. If you use your real name there is a better chance your comment will stay put.
Ha!
ReplyDeleteBut to be fair, I did read Mark Shea's post on it. And one of his friends, John C. Wright, wrote response to him that I think really nails the point:
http://www.scifiwright.com/2011/10/get-a-job/
I agree with Mr. Wright, though I am a fan of Mark Shea. I think we need to give Cain the benefit of the doubt in understanding that he is responding to the OSW hippies, who are mostly white, middle class hippies who want nothing than the complete overthrow of the US system, period.
I think the point is that poverty, at least for able-bodied young folk in this country, is not to be blamed on others. I don't know about it being "your own damn fault" - my parents were always pretty damn poor, but they never blamed it on anyone, and they just worked harder. They also raised us to not hate the rich, since it leads nowhere - and it most emphatically does not.
While it is true that the disparity between rich and poor is too high, what does it mean and how can it be fixed? Does anyone really think that they would gain the least bit by confiscating money from those rich bankers? I think the proper response should be to work for oneself and for the less fortunate with one's own means, and let God judge the super-wealthy.
But in our system, just taking their wealth, or bitching about it, will not make anyone richer. It's not like there's a bunch of gold coins out there and they have x percentage of the gold coins. It's not like taking their gold coins will mean that there are more gold coins to go around. That's not how wealth works at all.
So are the wealthy Wall Street bankers often a bunch of selfish, greedy, Mammon-worshipping pr***s? Yeah, probably. But the solution proposed by the Rage Against the Machine fan club will only make matters worse. Much worse.
A better answer would be to convert the hearts of the Wall Street bankers, wouldn't it?
"I think the proper response should be to work for oneself and for the less fortunate with one's own means, and let God judge the super-wealthy." -Mercury
ReplyDeleteThis would be the 'proper' response, unfortunately the Government has laden small - midsize businesses with so much red tape including insurance requirements, that it is hard to do the 'proper' thing. I have relatives with small businesses and I know what they are under. I have witnessed a neighbor with a small business forced to sell their home at a loss because of the poor economy. The heavy taxes on both personal property & the business certainly played their part. Perhaps they would have been able to weather the economic storm if their taxes had been reduced.
I agree the Wall Street Rage-in is NOT the answer either.
I heard Herman Cain's talk on Fox...quite interesting...
ReplyDeleteI remember growing up in southern California in the 70's when the Vietnamese boat people were give refuge..with nothing more than the clothes on their backs...yeah the government gave them a bit of help,but still VERY poor people... but they enrolled their kids in school learned English, started a business, maybe a restaurant where the kids worked after school, and made something of themselves, no sitting back with tons of excuses...they took advantage of the American dream,and their kids went on to be validictorians in school and excelling in college..
My sis in law also came froma poor white trash family in Arkansas, she got out of the environment, got her GED and eventually went to college and became an architect...but again only minimal handouts, it was her own hard work.
Like Mr Cain says, you can be whatever you want to be, as long as you don't sit back and say woe is me and expect everone to give you handouts. It takes blood, sweat and tears at times, but it can be done.
Sara
3puddytats did you ever read this article about Rags to Riches to Rags in the Cambodian Donut world?
ReplyDeletehttp://articles.latimes.com/2005/jan/19/local/me-donutking19
Nobody becomes a success all by themselves. If they aren't 'helped' by those that came before, they are very unusual.
Handouts no, but help/guidance/mentorship yes.
And opportunity...the OWS group is a pretty rag-tag, incoherent bunch, but there are some protesters among them who are making good points and whose frustration I understand. Corporate America needs to start creating opportunity instead of hoarding cash. It's not good for our young people, young men especially, to not have an _opportunity_ to work.
ReplyDeleteMy two youngest graduated into this economy, they're working like dogs at dead end jobs they'd rather not have, and I sense a growing frustration and tension in them -- in my son particularly.
My daughter works a 13 hour day five days a week, combining two jobs, just to make ends meet. My son grits his teeth and puts up with what can only be called abusive behavior by his boss, has no medical insurance, no paid vacation, and rarely gets even holidays off.
They're not slackers by any means. But they and their friends are angry, frustrated, exhausted, and tired of the sneering crap they get from the sixty and seventy somethings who are living in the lap of luxury but won't retire and won't create opportunity -- and who are collecting social security as well. There's something not right there.
Sara--in the 80's during the OTHER Recession that no one seems to talk about--that was ME...worked as a waitress making 25 cents an hour plus tips, worked as a road flagger in the summer in the blazing hot CA sun, and as a lifeguard at the city pool, times when I had to decide wheter to put food in my stomach or gas in my car, juggling college classes when I could because I KNEW that was the only way I could get ahead..then there was no unemployment, very little welfare, you shared homes with a bunch of ugly roommates....but I knew it was only temporary..that I wasn't goign to live like that the rest of my life..the one month I spent living out of my car convinced me it couldn't get any worse..did a stint in the military to get the GI Bill to help me finish college...and I MADE it...
ReplyDeleteI also had grandparents who lived through the Depression, and always kept their stories in the back of my mind, that it COULD be worse...I could always get a job waitressing or cocktailing at the local bar. It wasnt' easy, but it sure did make me appreciate the success that I'm at now..
Sara
And opportunity--sometime you have to MAKE your own opportunity,..
ReplyDeleteCase in point--I was picking up my sick kitty from the vet..while I was paying th e bill a lady who looked to be in her 40's came in and said she was here to pick up Scruffy (or whatever)...turns out that she runs her own service where she ferries dogs and cats to the vet, and fru fru dogs to their grooming appointments, for people who can't drive or who are at work. Wow what a deal...the receptionist said yeas she's got more business than she can handle..and talk about practically NO investment..all you need is a reliable car and halfway like dogs and cats. And a business plan. People love it because now you don't have to schedule pet appts around your work hours..like I have to...
Opportunity is indeed out there, you can't wait for it to fall in your lap.
Sara
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"Corporate America needs to start creating opportunity instead of hoarding cash. It's not good for our young people, young men especially, to not have an _opportunity_ to work."
ReplyDeleteThey aren't going to risk their money if there is uncertainty about how much of a hit they will take with Obamacare, and how much they will be hit with increasing regs and taxes. I'm guessing that those who might be in a position to hire might decide that it is prudent to see what the future brings (presidential election) before committing themselves. Can't say that I blame them...
This article pretty much sums up my views on the protest: http://articles.ocregister.com/2011-10-07/news/30258805_1_debt-forgiveness-steve-jobs-iphone
Oh, and Sara -- please don't use foul language here. It is incredibly rude and vulgar, and tells me more about you than I needed to know (are you really unable to express yourself without resorting to such obscenities?). You've done yourself a serious disservice.
ReplyDelete