Wretched? Wretched is good.
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"If I had been able to find a creature more miserable than you" Our Lord said to Saint Margaret Mary, "I should have chosen her. "
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Our Lord to Sr. Josefa Menendez: "If I could have found a more wretched creature, I should have chosen her for my special love, and through her revealed the longings of My Heart. But I have not found one, and so I have chosen you" (7th june 1923).
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"Do you not know that the more wretched a soul is, the more I love her?"
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"The fact that I have chosen a soul does not mean that her faults and miseries are wiped out. But if in all humility that soul acknowledges her failings and atones by little acts of generosity and love, above all, if she trusts Me, if she throws herself into My Heart, she gives Me more glory and does more good to souls than if she had not fallen. What does her wretchedness matter to Me, if she gives Me the love that I want?" (20th October 1922).
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I read that Michael Voris has a few issues with the term wretch as it is used in the song, Amazing Grace. What I find really amazing is the lack of self knowledge we Catholics frequently suffer from. I also think we all need to avoid partaking too much in the cult of self-esteem.
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"I know a man who kept no long strict fasts, no vigils, did not sleep on bare earth, imposed on himself no other specially arduous tasks; but, recollecting in memory his sins, understood his wretchedness and, having judged himself, became humble - and for this alone the most compassionate Lord saved him; as the divine David says: 'The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit' (Ps. 34:18). In short, he trusted the words of the Lord and for his faith the Lord received him." - St. Simeon the New Theologian
As one commenter pointed out, there is a difference, in that those scripture passages use wretch an an adjective, whereas the song (which I've never liked) makes more of an identity claim. Yes, we have lost the sense of sin. But fact is, it's easy to call oneself a wretch. I do it in mind all the time. It's when one sees one's sinfulness in relation to their true dignity that it really begins to hurt. Mark Shea is blowing steam out of his ass and out both of his ears. He's guilty of everything he accuses Voris of. Also he totally quotes him out of context about the two different kinds of grace.
ReplyDeleteI would never dare to tell somebody who wishes to be identified as a Catholic that they are not a "real Catholic". I may, indeed, argue with *ideas* asserted to be Catholic but which are either incompletely Catholic or actually antithetical to the Faith. But the idea of declaring *people* to be a "Fake Catholics" and telling those who disagree with me that they are not? Arrogant. And, unfortunately, all too common among Voris and his fans.
ReplyDeleteDid you notice that you both have the same basic hairdos?
ReplyDelete"I don't understand what people see in this guy. You can get all the good things he has to say--without the sectarian self-righteousness and cloddish theological blunders and over-simplifications--from lots of other sources."
If I had a bigger blog than the one I have and I said that about you, would you come along and charge me with "calumny"?
Voris makes some points worth considering (in a roughly five minute segment):
1. God does not make garbage (the wretch thing)
2. We are not the mobilizers/actuators of God's grace (the thing you grossly quote him out of context on)
3. We have more than enough rich Catholic hymns to go around that we don't need to accommodate a Protestant hymn.
The points he makes in his vlog are tenable even to one who doesn't agree. You use it as an opportunity to smear him in every which way you can.
The whole fake Catholic real Catholic thing: he's talking about the loss of the Church's identity (most intensely over what, the past 100 years?) a loss we all to some extent share in. Yes, every Catholic is a baptized Catholic, but we have accepted compromise with the world (and Protestantism) that makes us fake (in more or less ways). This identity crisis is huge. I don't think Voris pretends to be the end-all be-all solution: he hits on some major themes, to which end the "anchor" role serves him well.
Which is that thing you take way too personally: the role he dons on his vlogs. He's demarking the limits of his medium by his tone and his ritual intro.
But of course ever since his criticism of certain bloggers' tones during Earthquake Corapi, you've decided on what he's all about. Arrogant.
I don't get what "wretched" or "miserable" is supposed to mean. It can't mean St. Margaret Mary or St. Faustina were the most "sinful". Perhaps the most weak?
ReplyDeleteMark-- Excactly how long have you been a Catholic?
ReplyDeleteI don't get what "wretched" or "miserable" is supposed to mean.
ReplyDeleteI interpret it to mean that without God's grace, we are truly incapable of doing any sort of meaningful Good.
If you read the saints, Catherine of Siena, Angela of Foligno, Teresa of Avila, and John of the Cross, you get an understanding of what wretched means in relation to the Divinity. The awesome difference between the creature and the creator - after the fall. Why else do 'good' people go to purgatory after death?
ReplyDeleteI'm Biblically illiterat and theologically stupid as well, but without God's amazing grace, I shudder to think what I would be. ;)
Interestingly enough, the song gained great popularity in and through the charismatic movement a few decades ago. Many devout Catholics understood the meaning then and many experienced what Garrigou-Lagrange termed what might be interpretted to be a 'second conversion' - charismatics call it born again. These folks, and many penitents since who have experienced deep conversion from sin understand the song in accord with their religious experience. I've seen tough guys in recovery weep during the song.
It is good to be corrected - 'if a good man reproves me, it is kindness.'
I've always thought it was a beautiful song. Sure, it's definitely Protestant in its tone, but I see nothing un-Catholic in it.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the guy who wrote is was not thinking "God made me a piece of crap" when he wrote "wretch".
And Anonymous - why the pot-shot at Mr. Shea? I don't agree with Mark Shea always, but why attack him anonymously like that?
I love this!!! Thanks for posting--I'm going to print it out and ponder it all day :)
ReplyDeleteMercury - thanks for mentioning the anonymous comment - I wondered what it had to do with anything myself.
ReplyDeleteTara - I like these quotes too - very consoling.
Yes we all are wretched sinners...but I think we also get hung up on FORGIVEN sins...we make our Confession, receive our absolution, receive the instruction "Go and sin no more", and do our penance. So why are we unaccepting of God's forgiveness!! Continually beating ourselves up over forgiven sins. I had one priest tell me refusing the grace of God's forgiveness was a more serious sin than anything else..
ReplyDeleteNot that I run around "happy happy joy joy" but I don't continually rub gravel in my hair ( a cool Fr Z term--love it!!) because of me being a sinner. It's my fallen nature, now I try my best to be a good person and follow God in this crazy world. And go to confession :)
Sara
PS I don't think how long someone's been a Catholic has anythingto do with anything..I get that thrown in my face all the time "If you're not a cradle catholic you're not a REAL Catholic...BS...look at how many saints were converts. And the 12 Apostles were nice Jewish boys..
How is a simple question construed as an attack? UIt is getting to the point that no matter what one says, we are at war. It was, simply, a question, born of curiousity.
ReplyDeleteSara: I think you are reading a little too much into a simple, staightforward question.
ReplyDeleteThanks Terry. I needed this today.
ReplyDeleteMost Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
I agree with you Terry, and your interpretation of the word wretch. I remember reading something St. Teresa of Avila wrote, when she spoke of God being able to tolerate "her odor". The greatest saint that ever walked the earth cannot change the fact that they are still a creature that cannot compare to the Creator. As for Voris, I don't get the appeal he has, except that there are people who seem to need to hear their opinions regurgitated to them all the time, the same people who can tolerate listening to talk radio for hours at a time.
ReplyDeleteSara, wouldn't it be wonderful if Catholics would mind their own business about how they are living out their own faith and not concern themselves over who is more Catholic? Anyone who would make that kind of remark to you - that you have to be a cradle Catholic to be a real Catholic - is really missing the point. The Mother Prioress at our nearby Carmelite Monastery is herself a convert to the faith. I'd like to see one of the so-called cradle Catholics try to say she is somehow less Catholic because she wasn't raised in the faith.
'I've seen tough guys in recovery weep during the song.'
ReplyDeleteIt's a popular hymn choice at their funerals too.
I love St Mary Margaret Alocoque. she gives you a sense of peace if you ask for her prayers, to let you know she has taken them to God's presence. I have sensed this peace three times. It works.
AMAZING GRACE!
Sara, wouldn't it be wonderful if Catholics would mind their own business about how they are living out their own faith and not concern themselves over who is more Catholic? Anyone who would make that kind of remark to you - that you have to be a cradle Catholic to be a real Catholic - is really missing the point
ReplyDeleteI was not, nor am I now, impuning the character of Mark Shea, and by your implication, the character of Sara, or any other known or unknown convert on the blog, or elsewhere. I merely asked a QUESTION. I aplogize to you, Sara, Terry,Mercury and anyone else who was possibly OFFENDED.
Thanks Anonymous - we all seem to be little touchy these days - you are fine. Sorry for the misunderstanding. God bless.
ReplyDeleteJesus cracks me up.
ReplyDelete~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@ Mr.Terry & Larry,
It's the second verse of Amazing Grace that makes me joyful. Ten thousand years of God with us.
Can you imagine sharing ten thousand years with me? hahahaha
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Paul
Watch the hair jokes, Mr.V didn't find them amusing... AT ALL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Psalms
Chapter 103
Verse 8
Merciful and gracious is the LORD, slow to anger, abounding in kindness.
9
God does not always rebuke, nurses no lasting anger,
10
Has not dealt with us as our sins merit, nor requited us as our deeds deserve.
11
As the heavens tower over the earth, so God's love towers over the faithful.
12
As far as the east is from the west, so far have our sins been removed from us.
13
As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has compassion on the faithful.
No need to apologize to me. I didn't even see your question to Mark Shea until your response just now. I know that Sara is a convert and I know the way some converts are treated. Unlike the Quakers, we don't separate the "birth-right" folks from the converts, though some try anyway.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, I'm sorry. It was just the anonymous nature of the post - it came off as sarcastic. Of course, that interpretation lies with me, not with you. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteTerry--Thank you for understanding. Truly I meant no malice.
ReplyDeleteMercury--Thank you. I appreciate what you had to say. There are reasons why I am now posting anonymously...
Sara--In your remarks to Sara you said: "Unlike the Quakers, we don't separate the "birth-right" folks from the converts, though some try anyway".
I am Catholic, too...
Now I'm really confused. Never mind.
ReplyDeleteNot to be sung at the Holy Mass.Read: http://www.chantcafe.com/2011/07/martin-mosebach-on-hymns-and-mass.html
ReplyDeleteAlso: http://arsorandi.blogspot.com/p/principles-of-anti-liturgical-hersesy-by.html
It's the heat, I tell 'ya.
ReplyDeleteEven my llamas have been spitting at one another all day. I have to break them up by spraying them with the garden hose.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteI entered the Church December 20, 1987.
Paul:
ReplyDelete1. God does not make garbage (the wretch thing)
Which is not what the hymn says. It says we are saved by grace, a perfectly Catholic teaching.
2. We are not the mobilizers/actuators of God's grace (the thing you grossly quote him out of context on)
The hymn teaches no such thing. For heaven's sake, make up your mind. The first complaint makes the hymn too Calvinist, while the second makes it Pelagian. In fact, it's just Christian and Catholic orthodoxy to say that we are saved by grace. Your analysis illustrates perfectly the tendency of Voris and his acolytes to accuse rather than read charitably.
3. We have more than enough rich Catholic hymns to go around that we don't need to accommodate a Protestant hymn.
And so, just to maintain unit cohesion among the Reactionary Catholic tribe, we are to jettison:
Joy to the World - written by (Protestant) Isaac Watts
Hark, the Herald Angels Sing - by Charles Wesley, brother of John Wesley who founded the Methodists.
What Child Is This? - written by (Protestant) William Chatterton Dix
We Three Kings - written by John Henry Hopkins, Jr., an Episcopal clergyman.
Away in a Manger - wrongly attributed to Martin Luther, it's still Protestant in origin. It even says that the Christ Child didn't cry, which might possibly be considered by some a denial the Incarnation. Heresy!
O Holy Night - The lyrics we sing were translated by John Sullivan Dwight, a Unitarian minister. While the original French poem called Jesus "the Man God," Dwight conveniently left that part out of his very loose translation, most likely because Unitarians deny that Jesus is God. Heresy!
It Came Upon the Midnight Clear - written by Edmund Sears, another Unitarian minister! Heresy!
O Little Town of Bethlehem - written by Phillips Brooks, and Episcopal clergyman. Besides, who ever heard of singing a hymn to a town? Heresy!
The First Noel - The author is unknown, but it first appeared in a Protestant hymnal in 1833 so it's most likely Protestant. Can't take any chances so out it goes! Moreover, it says that the shepherds were guided to the manger by a star. Heresy! Scripture says that the star guided to Magi, not the shepherds; the angel told them what to look for to find the Christ Child.
Go Tell It on the Mountain - an African-American spiritual, thus also composed by Protestants.
O Come, O Come, Emmanuel- sure, it's based on the O Antiphons, which are Catholic in origin, but this translation was done by John Mason Neale, an Anglican clergyman, and Henry Sloane Coffin, a Presbyterian. It was first published by Protestants in Protestant hymnals; we can't have any Cath-o-tant hymns infiltrating the Mass, so bye-bye.
Good King Wenceslas - Also written by John Mason Neale. Not sung to often but still Protestant in origin and so off-limits to Catholics.
Silent Night - Though the German original was composed by a Catholic priest, the English translation we use today was done by John Freeman Young, an Episcopalian clergyman. Tainted by Protestantism, therefore it's Cath-o-tant - out it goes.
And that's just the Christmas carols...
Also, no Catholic should ever under any circumstances listen to Handel's Messiah, for Handel was a Protestant and the song uses verses from the KJV! The works of Bach as well.
This kind of pointless tribalist factionalism and bigotry is exactly why I think Voris' approach is poison.
"And I am the foremost of sinners; 16 but I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience for an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life." 1 Tim 1:15-16)
ReplyDeleteWhat! Paul speaks in the present tense of being the foremost of sinners! Obviously he is a Calvinist heretic who believes God makes garbage and rejects the forgiveness of God. It's not possible he means basically the same things as a former slaver who realizes that nothing he did or could do could deserve the justifying grace of a wretched sinner.
You guys are the hot heads..it's only 86 degrees here :)
ReplyDeleteAnd anything I post on combox is either commentary to the topic on hand or my own stupid opinion not worth a hill of beans and not meant to offend, neither do I take offense...I'm pretty thick skinned :)
Now off to get ready for a REAL rodeo..and check out the cute cowboys :)
Sara
Catholics crack me up.
ReplyDeleteSt Simeon is a great inspiration and patron for those who struggle with homosexuality, he confessed to struggling with it and also to sodomy while living in Constantinople, but once converted he found a life of purity and inner peace in the holy spirit.
ReplyDeleteSo, Mark. You closed comments on the matter, at your own blog, so you could come here and give us a thrashing at Abbey Roads? OK :) Sometimes I think little more love and fewer facts get us further down the road. Thanks for answering my question.
ReplyDelete"Amazing Grace" is one hymn I DON'T want sung at my funeral. In my time as an organist, I've heard it done so often and so badly that, in spite of the Christian lyrics and such, I never want to hear it again! And I think Michael Voris should fire his barber -- who is a barbarian!
ReplyDeleteChloesmom
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteI closed comments cuz I'm busy. I answered your questions and Paul's sundry accusation because you asked and he accused. And for taking trouble to answer you, I get complaints and criticism. I've learned my lesson: don't answer questions for people who find fault with you for taking time to answer their questions.
Mark: We don't need always to be at war with one another. No need to be so bellicose, mon frere. Love is mighty engine. It gets us everywhere. Simply, everywhere:)
ReplyDeleteMy apologies Mark - I linked to your post because I felt you made some very good points, and I wanted to add my 'wretched' quotes to demonstrate just how Catholic the concept is. I did not realize people would vent against your writing here. Sorry.
ReplyDeletePlease note that anonymous comments need to have some sort of signature/name - otherwise I will remove them.
ReplyDeleteTerry: I think Mr. Shea might want to ask himself: does he want to win hearts for Christ or does he want to win arguments?
ReplyDeleteDas Irie
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fMHms5Cvsw
The day of wrath, that day
Will dissolve the world in ashes
As foretold by David and the sibyl!
Oh, what fear man's bosom rendeth,
when from heaven the Judge descendeth,
on whose sentence all dependeth.
Wondrous sound the trumpet flingeth;
through earth's sepulchers it ringeth;
all before the throne it bringeth.
Death is struck, and nature quaking,
all creation is awaking,
to its Judge an answer making.
Lo! the book, exactly worded,
wherein all hath been recorded:
thence shall judgment be awarded.
When the Judge his seat attaineth,
and each hidden deed arraigneth,
nothing unavenged remaineth.
What shall I, frail man, be pleading?
Who for me be interceding,
when the just are mercy needing?
King of Majesty tremendous,
who dost free salvation send us,
Fount of pity, then befriend us!
Think, good Jesus, my salvation
cost thy wondrous Incarnation;
leave me not to reprobation!
Faint and weary, thou hast sought me,
on the cross of suffering bought me.
shall such grace be vainly brought me?
Righteous Judge! for sin's pollution
grant thy gift of absolution,
ere the day of retribution.
Guilty, now I pour my moaning,
all my shame with anguish owning;
spare, O God, thy suppliant groaning!
Thou the sinful woman savedst;
thou the dying thief forgavest;
and to me a hope vouchsafest.
Worthless are my prayers and sighing,
yet, good Lord, in grace complying,
rescue me from fires undying!
With thy favored sheep O place me;
nor among the goats abase me;
but to thy right hand upraise me.
While the wicked are confounded,
doomed to flames of woe unbounded
call me with thy saints surrounded.
Low I kneel, with heart submission,
see, like ashes, my contrition;
help me in my last condition.
Ah! that day of tears and mourning!
From the dust of earth returning
man for judgment must prepare him;
Spare, O God, in mercy spare him!
Lord, all pitying, Jesus blest,
grant them thine eternal
rest. Amen.
Also, In Paradisum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2WMhaogDsI&feature=player_embedded
Traditional Roman Catholic Death songs.
That's what they will sign at my Funeral.
*
“…In fact, it's just Christian and Catholic orthodoxy to say that we are saved by grace…”
ReplyDeleteWhat the…???
as Hilaire Belloc says in his book on The Great Heresies:
… There is no such thing as a religion called “Christianity” – there never has been such a religion.
There is and always has been the Church, and various heresies proceeding from a rejection of some of the Church’s doctrines by men who still desire to retain the rest of her teaching and Morals.
But there never has been and never can be or will be a general Christian religion professed by men who all accept some central important doctrines, while agreeing to differ about others.
There has always been, from the beginning, and will always be, the Church, and sundry heresies either doomed to decay, or, like Mohammedanism, to grow into a separate religion.
Of a common Christianity there has never been and never can be a definition, for it has never existed. …
No; the quarrel is between the Church and the anti-Church – the Church of God and anti-God – the Church of Christ and anti-Christ. (p. 162)
Call a Heretic a Heretic, but please don’t call him ‘Christian’.
*
St. Michael: Some of us get our theology from the Catholic Church, not from Reactionary sectarians who appeal to popular English writers for their private dogmas which pretend to imbue them withh the authority to bar Protestants from claiming the name of "Christian":
ReplyDelete"Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church." Unitatis Redintegatio 3.
Anonymous: I don't know who you are, so how can I be at war with you? I answered your question and you were rude in reply. I forgive you. But I have no inclination to answer anything further if that is the reward I get for taking trouble to try to reply to you.
Terry: Don't sweat it. You aren't responsible.
Maggy: Funny. I wonder exactly the same thing about Voris and his sundry Reactionary fanboys like St. Michael and the crowd of bitters over at places like Fisheaters. The greatest enemies Pope Benedict has, the most mortal foes of his liturgical reforms, and the most repellent propagandists against the glory of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, are online Traditionalists. It's a real question as to whether what Benedict hopes to attempt in restoring the liturgy will survive the incredibly destructive witness of Traditionalists on the web who are, hands down, some of the nastiest, bitterest, ugliest, most paranoid, and most unpleasant people I have ever encountered. It's like they *want* to drive normal people away from the Church. Happily, the Reactionary Bubble, though noisy, is small and most people never encounter it. I pray Pope Benedict's reforms are successful and that the Reactionaries who "support" him do not screw up everything by terrifying away those normal people who are attracted to the glory of the Extraordinary Form. As to whether I "win hearts for Christ", I have long since adopted Christ's motto regarding pearls before swine in dealing with Reactionaries who have made it clear they hate not just me, but all contemptible "Novus Ordos" who dwell outside the bubble of Perfection. I direct what I have to say to normal people, not bitter self-righteous Pharisees who have made clear multiple times over that they regard me as their enemy. I can't help that, and I forgive them for doing so. But I'm not going to beat my head against a wall trying to make them like me.
We are saved by grace fruitful in good works...Read James 2 14-26
ReplyDeleteMark P Shea said:
ReplyDelete"It's a real question as to whether what Benedict hopes to attempt in restoring the liturgy will survive the incredibly destructive witness of Traditionalists on the web who are, hands down, some of the nastiest, bitterest, ugliest, most paranoid, and most unpleasant people I have ever encountered. It's like they *want* to drive normal people away from the Church."
They certainly put me off, although I am far from normal. I got really (really) angry with Fr Z's commenters at one stage, they almost began to cause a smell in my nostrils!
Then as I tend to, when situations become overwhelming or I become aware of being powerless , I gave the Lord my anger and Jesus soon turned it to compassion...(why does He always do that?).
I feel sorry that some people do not have a direct sense of one to one childlike encounter with Jesus. For them, form and rite are perhaps paramount and indeed neccessary, like the Martha and Mary situation but in a rubricallyish sort of way. (Is rubricallyish that a word?)
i'd love them to sing Amazing Grace at my funeral, especially if I die sober (by His Amazing Grace)!
Not sure about having too fussy an organist though, I think I prefer guitars!
Am I allowed to say that without risking Monsieur Voris making a video on the 'musical instrument of the damned'??????????
Shine Jesus shine!!!!!
ReplyDeleteJacqueline:
ReplyDeleteTrue. We are not saved by "faith alone". We are, however, saved by grace, which is a dogmatic teaching of the Church. We are not Pelagian or semi-Pelagians. We reject the proposition that our salvation comes from a combination of Grace and our work. Our ability to believe *and* our ability to cooperate with grace by bearing fruit in works of charity are *both* the fruit of grace. Grace is, in fact, the foundation of our existence. God graciously will us into being, as well as graciously giving us salvation in Christ. So, yes, we reject "faith alone" salvation and insist we must cooperate with Grace by works of obedience. But we affirm (against Pelagius) that we earn justifying grace. That is pure gift.
I am curious to know what Mr.Shea thinks about the Martin Mosebach book that I linked to[above] (which is on the blog "ChantCafe". It is very clear that the songs, carols and hymns which Mr.Shea likes are not needed or required in the Holy Mass.
ReplyDeleteHmmm.........
ReplyDeletePart One of three
ReplyDeleteSnake oil salesmen get whatever is necessary from whatever source available, and package it to be as palatable as possible to those they sell it to.
If they wind up selling some Truth, so much the better.
Anyone counters their claims, they are automatically labeled as enemies of those who want to buy the snake oil salesman’s goods, and enemies of those that want to buy their goods, that in doing so, they may lead happy, fruitful lives.
Only problem is, once the goods have been accepted, the clients are left worse off having taken the snake oil salesman’s ‘cure’, then when they were first flim-flammed by him.
Following Christ is difficult, even for the Holy Father. Saint Peter proved that point.
Protestants are named just that; they Protest Christ and His Bride.
I was listening to a Protestant speak of Christ and His Bride, and she was really doing a great job.
I asked her what Protestant means, and she stated it was the Church she attended.
When I told her what it meant, her eyes glazed over and she told me how much she disliked the Catholic Church, and how we were wrong.
So much for loving Christ and His Bride.
She is pretty much typical of Protestants.
She is the fruit of that movement, and it might not be possible that a claim of invincible ignorance can be made for her.
It is our prayer as Catholics, that she and her ilk come to repentance, surrender to Christ, and become Catholic.
Hillare Belloc is considered a Catholic writer by Holy Mother Church; many others do not have this consideration:
*
Part Two of three
ReplyDelete'The reading of spiritual works is as profitable as the reading of bad books is noxious. As the former has led to the conversion of many sinners, so the latter is every day the ruin of many young persons. The first author of pious books is the Spirit of God; but the author of pernicious writings is the devil, who often artfully conceals from certain persons the poison that such works contain, and makes these persons believe that the reading of such books is necessary in order to speak well, and to acquire a knowledge of the world for their own direction, or at least in order to pass the time agreeably.'
St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori
We should strive to read those authors Holy Mother Church gives her blessings to, and avoid the pernicious ones.
Therefore and whereas, I quoted Belloc.
With permission of Holy Mother Church and at least one Saint.
“…For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect…”
Truth is not our making, but God's. And hence the Church in her history, due reparation made, has always welcomed the heretic back into the treasury of her souls, but never his heresy into the treasury of her wisdom.
The Supreme Law of Holy Mother Church is the Salvation of Souls.
“…not bitter self-righteous Pharisees…”
“…" I have long since adopted Christ's motto regarding pearls before swine in dealing with Reactionaries…”
That the standard has been set with these statements, my membership as a direct descendant of Cristeros should be remembered; just as we fought and held our ground with our blood and with our souls against the American and European Freemasons, we will hold our positions against ‘Trinketeros’, trinket salesmen, and their phony Theology Certificates, that use the words of our Lord and His Saints to tickle the ears of others.
Here is our position in Holy Mother Church:
Part Three of three
ReplyDelete«... “Divine Providence often permits even good men to be chased out of the Christian communion through the unruly activities of carnal men.
If they bear this undeserved affront with great patience for the peace of the Church, if they do not foment any new heresy or schism, they teach the world with what true attachment and with what sincere love God must be served.
Their desire is to re-enter the Church when the trouble has passed.
If they are forbidden to do so, if the storm lasts, or if their return were to arouse a similar or even more violent storm, they continue to wish well even to those through whose machinations and intrigues they have been chased out.
Without ever forming separate conventicles, they defend to the death and they confirm with their testimony the faith they know to be preached by the Catholic Church.
Then the Father crowns them in secret, He who sees them in secret.
Such men are rare, yet examples are not wanting: and they are even more numerous than might be thought.»
(Saint Augustine, Liber de vera religione, 11)
“…Traditionalists on the web who are, hands down, some of the nastiest, bitterest, ugliest, most paranoid, and most unpleasant people I have ever encountered. It's like they *want* to drive normal people away from the Church..."
"If we want to be happy, we must learn to see God and His creatures as they are in themselves, and for their own sakes: we must pray all our lives the prayer of the man in the Gospel: "Lord, that I may see."
A good Act of reparation is to ask your Guardian Angel to do the following:
Guardian Angel, watch over those whose names you can read in my heart. Guard over them with every care and make their way easy and their labours fruitful. Dry their tears if they weep; sanctify their joys; raise their courage if they weaken; restore their hope if they lose heart, their health if they be ill, truth if they err, repentance if they fail.
I don’t have a problem casting my pearl before swine.
Therefore, I will ask the Dispenser of Divine Graces to provide you with many graces, including Charity.
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"Fanboys"? Kyrie Eleison...
ReplyDeleteMaria
"But we affirm (against Pelagius) that we *cannot* earn justifying grace. "
ReplyDeleteSorry for the exceedingly stupid typo above.
We aren't worried about your typos, Mr. Shea.
ReplyDelete