Sunday, June 12, 2011

Snark Bait

A new feature.
Call it a synopsis of nothing if you like, but this new feature is simply a redux of my old random thoughts posts with a little bit of 'pepper' - which ought to excite some of my more unstable commenters to some degree, and possibly generate a bit of snark and lots of back-talk - or rather, behind-the-back-talk via emails and twits, that is.
Ageism, or another reason why Fr. Z will never be a bishop.

Fr. Z writes about the Detroit ACC, a convention that would be of interest to only a very few progressive Catholics as well as a few people in the Detroit area.  These types generally belong to the same group of Catholic liberals who would have sought to block men such as Fr. Z from ordination.  Thus one can understand the animosity.  I lived and suffered through the same progressive church people so I know what these people can be like.  That said, the contempt shown by Fr. Z and his ilk regarding the age and infirmity of these Christians is hardly charitable.  God permitting, Fr. Z and his host of followers will live to see their lives fall apart in sickness and old age and mockery as well.
On the Detroit ACC - How a Bishop responds.
As you may be aware, a group calling itself the American Catholic Council will be meeting at Cobo Hall on the weekend of June 11 and 12. Despite my attempts to engage in a dialogue with them about this planned event, the organizers of this conference have not replied to me directly. I have a number of concerns about this event and caution any Catholic against participating for reasons expressed already in previous communications sent by the Archdiocese.

In order to fulfill my responsibilities, so clearly enunciated by the Second Vatican Council, of fostering of communion with both the local and the universal Church, I am compelled to caution any priests or deacons who may be considering participation in this liturgy. It is not being celebrated with my permission as required by the law and the good order of the People of God. Further, clergy should be aware of the impact of forbidden concelebration with those who are not in full communion (canons 908 and 1365). This is a serious delict, for which recourse to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is required, and which may result in dismissal from the clerical state (cf. Sacramentorum Sanctitatis Tutela, 2001 and 2010).
I ask that you pray with me for the unity of the Church. As we commemorate the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles and the Blessed Virgin in this upcoming Solemnity, may the Holy Spirit come afresh on all of us, keeping us united in the love of God and keeping our attention and energies focused on the task of sharing Christ in and through His Church.
Sincerely yours in Christ,
The Most Reverend Allen H. Vigneron, Archbishop of Detroit - Te Deum blog
"I ask that you pray with me for the unity of the Church." - Archbishop Vigneron  (See the difference?)
Photo credit for the walker photo: Fr. Z at the Detroit ACC.


  1. I like your idea for the new feature. Will you rate the 'bits of pepper' according to strength?

    White Pepper for mild snark.

    Jalapeno poppers - might startle newbies, but won't faze those with jaded (or no) taste.

    Habaneros - major caution! This is going to hurt.

    Bhut Jolokia - approach only after Confession and while wearing nuclear suit. Keep the Holy Water handy.

  2. I rarely go to his blog but did happen to read that post and found it sadly cruel and snarky (particularly for a priest.)

    Since I will be 66 in Dec., I find the the references to the "biological solution" to all the problems in the Church to be offensive and rather stupid.

    Trust me - you'll all miss me when I'm gone. So there!

  3. Oh - yeah, about the vine? It made me gasp when I scrolled down and saw that picture. Really!

    I'd be happy to fly up and spray their entire yard with RoundUp at about 3am.

  4. Fr. Frank4:54 PM

    I'm with you on the ageism. I'm an amazingly (stunningly, really!) youthful 54, but I still get awfully tired of Fr. Z's apparent hermeneutic: "Liberals are just stoopid old folks with big puppets and wheelchairs. They'll all be dead soon. Mwaahaaahaaaah!" I think it's discourteous, uncharitable, and reflects badly on all of us who are faithful and orthodox priests. Just sayin'. BTW - how is he able to spend SO much time traveling? I pastor 2 parishes, and could sure use the help if he's got so much spare time.

  5. Hi hon.

    I tried to comment on your vine post but it wouldn't let me! My neighbors threw empty wrappers at me over my new fence as I worked on digging up my new beds for my landscaping project. I wonder if they are related to your neighbors....

    It is hard to be loving and charitable, isn't it? I prove that every day and it seems like the post you reference is struggling with that message as well.

    I posted Leviticus 19:11-18 on my fridge (I eat a lot so my face is before it often). When I'm feeling really sour towards others I read it. I've been muttering a lot lately so I think I read it but don't really absorb it.

    Anyway, that's all. Miss me?

  6. Terry - I am ilk?

  7. What are those little hot peppers put in some Asian dishes?? Those will rock your world...


  8. PS thanks for the yard reminder..I really need to trim back my "finished" tulips before my HOA gets pissed. I about need my barn boots to go into my flower garden the soil is so soggy..and yet the grass sprinklers came on last nights...we probably don't need to water for at least another three weeks..My iris are loving' it though..

    Two and a half sunny days in a sprinkled this clock restarts..


  9. Anonymous7:05 PM

    Fellow commenters, I too am rather annoyed with Fr. Z.'s snarkiness with regard to us over-60s. Even thought my hair is short and grey, I still hit the gym 3x/wk. and am pretty conservative liturgy-wise, though hard to be so in my liberal parish. I've even been known to wear a pants suit on occasion (gasp!). Fr. Z. seems to forget how quickly times passes - it seems just the other day my first child who's now 28 was born. Each of us gets older one day at a time, and some day he will wake up to realize that he's just turned 60 and his hair is grey. What a nasty surprise that will be! Enjoy your youth while you can, Father. It passes very quickly. In November, I'll officially become a senior (65), and I'll be durned if I know where the last 40 years went - they just did!


  10. Anonymous7:05 PM

    Ter--Yeah, we should be charitable towards the old libs. We'll be old too one day, God willing.

    The vine thing--we used to call it "english ivy" but I think we were wrong. Anyway, yeah, it's beautiful, I've always loved the look of it, but it can be a real pest and take over everything, often killing other plants and even small trees. But I think the neighborly thing would have been if they'd come and talked to you about an agreeable solution.

    Cath--I miss ya! How's your summer going? I hear ya about the all too frequent trips to the fridge. I need to rejoin Weight Watchers--their new program is really better than it used to be....focuses on fresh fruits and veggies and whole foods.

  11. While it uncharitable to mock people because they are old, I do it now and then. And I am very old.

    I also marvel at this movement because they ARE very old. It is rare to see a person under 50 at their meetings.

    Of course significant numbers of people under 50 just don't go to church at all, let alone attend dissident gatherings.

  12. Larry wins for best comment - I am laughing so hard now!

  13. Ray from MN said:

    'While it uncharitable to mock people because they are old, I do it now and then. And I am very old.'

    I also joke about my and maybe my friend's increasing/decreasing defects of nature/character but he is on a mission, in my view. And he's encouraging others to be on that same crusade. I can't believe he suddenly switches hats when in he is in the presence of an elderly female trad catholic woman or maybe his mother? These habits become ingrained if we're not careful.

    I mean, I can imagine him 'accidentally' mocking a conservative ageing Catholic and then saying: "Oh sorry, I thought you were one of 'them' or if he gets really mad when someone doesn't do or say exactly what he wants them too, he might put the biological solution 'hex' on them, trad or otherwise!!

    The thing that made me sad though, was in looking at one of the photographs, of some stewards, the guy was looking into the camera as Fr Z was photographing him. His eyes were the only authentic aspect of the whole outing. I wonder if he realised the revenge Fr Z was taking in photographing him, if your theory about these 'types' not wanting his 'type' ordained and you understanding him carrying this resentment round with him. If it is true, he should at least acknowledge it, if only to be as slavishly accurate in his actions as he is with his words.

    I speak as one of Terry's least stable commenters, ofcourse.

  14. Shadowlands - good comment. BTW - I probably shouldn't have used the term 'unstable' - I had the wording of the Summorum Pontificum in mind when I wrote that.

  15. Terry, no worries, unstable is the exact word needed.

    Breaking News.... I GOT THE JOB! I GOT THE JOB! I love everybody trad,mad,bad,cad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I start in two weeks. I need clothes, make-up, shoes. Oh the drama of it all.
    They're going to induct me. (induction?)

  16. LarryD wins best comment? That does it, I'm never coming back here again!

    You know I don't mean that, this blog is like a car wreck, you just can't look away! ROFL. Luv ya, hon!

    Gette: We should start a blogging Weight Watcher club. I'll set up my webcam and we can watch my weight balloon! lol. But, seriously, I need to start working out again, it's terrifying.

  17. Yes this is like a car wreck, and like Serial Mom I keep driving over the same corpses.

  18. Cathy - you and me can be ilk together!

  19. You're so right. That is totally why Fr. Z is not bishop material, but the 30-year-old former pastoral vicar of my parish is. He's conservative, tends toward bluntness in preaching the truth, and has his share of snarkiness. But he is also a pastor of souls. He has serious issues with our parish liturgist's crazy antics, but he's concerned that said liturgist may be putting his own soul in danger. Father is distressed that the liturgist won't speak to him.

    Besides which, there are plenty of young liberals. They just can't afford to traipse around the country going to conferences.

  20. Wow, looks like Fr.Z has gotten some dander up around here. Please keep in mind that he is dealing with apostates who have decimated the Faith, not attacking old people. I submit that some of the comments here are rather uncharitable towards the good Father who I have had the pleasure to personally speak with on various occasions. (while he was in town helping out at a parish....) and found him to be a very kind man.

    Semper Fi!

  21. .....and found him to be a very kind man.

    Then you obviously still have all your own hair and teeth young man. Not everyone receives such kindness, nor are others encouraged to be kind. I submit that some of the comments here are rather uncharitable towards the old and ifirm and incontinent. If you check out my latest blog post, you'll see I do a bit more than submit actually.

    Granny bites back!!

  22. Shadowlands- How do you know about the status of my hair and teeth? You assume I am a young man. I take most of the comments you speak of as "tounge-in-cheek" I believe that any JOCULAR references to age or incontinence is essentialy aimed at a certain group of people whose mode of thinking within the Church is outmoded and outdated. There seems to be no one outside of their age demographic interested in their vision. I would not take it personally...strictly business ;)
    Semper Fidelis.

  23. 'I take most of the comments you speak of as "tounge-in-cheek"'

    Very funny!!!! And the jocular comment.

    Well anyway! I have discovered I am younger than Father Z! I just looked him up on Wikipedia. Only by a year or two though.....

    Actually, it's my mom I am sticking up for when I rant on. She is getting so frail. It's breaking my heart. And his commenters seem to ridicule all the disabilities she is beginning to experience. Even if sense could be made of their statement, I wouldn't be able to embrace it. I would be sinning, in my heart. They say it's past hurts kept hidden causing their outbursts. Can't they be directed to counsellors? My non-catholic friends think it's awful too.
    There is no converting going on from such offensive talk, just confirming the already converted in self righteousness.
    Maybe there is genuine ignorance on Father's part, to this negative effect, being felt by some. His commenters however, defend and justify all their words. Not one has recanted. Actually, one has, SSCatholic. She has commented on my blog to tell me this and also asked for charity on Father Z's. (It's the Detroit post that really got to me, btw. Last straw and all that).
    So, jarhead462, have you got your own teeth then? If so, how many. I've lost two, so far. Thank God, I've still got my front ones.

    Smile, Say Cheese.......

  24. Sorry, my error in previuos comment. SSCatholic didn't recant, they didn't have anything to recant for. They just changed their opinion re the 'biological solution' expression.

  25. Hey, you're talking about me. I'm tellin'. I'm tellin'... um.... um... well,I don't know who I'm tellin'. But I'm tellin' somebody.

    Oh, I know, I'll tell Kat. She's a fellow Carolina girl. (scratching head)even though we are from different Carolinas and don't know each other and...

  26. SSCaholic:

    I know there's a North and South Carolina, but is there another one?

  27. Shadowlands- I understand your feelings. Thank you for your candor. I will remember your Mother in my prayers. two years ago I watched my father die an agonizing death. He was strong as a bull, and to watch him suffer and break down was almost too much to bear, but I was able to join our suffering with Christ's. Redemtive Suffering gave me solace during a dark time, and I would not have known about any of these concepts of Holy Church if I had not found Fr. Z after wandering in the desert for 23 years. So please understand why I rush to his defense. I have met some of the people who post on his blog, and as a whole find them to be very good people. (some even quite old!)

    Semper Fi.

  28. jarhead,

    (I have to stop calling you that!) I'm Ros, by the way.
    I hear what you are saying about Fr Z helping you exactly where and when you needed it most. People who appear at these times in our lives always remain special to us. Ofcourse you would defend such a person. As would I.

    Actually, you seem like a decent sort of chap, (I assume you're a chap, I can't see a trad lass calling herself jarhead. What on earth does it mean anyway? It sounds like something that's been caught in a door!)you should blog about traditionalism. I think people would look into it more if they didn't feel intimidated, through their lack of knowing just what the heck to ask etc. Fr Z's blog is for the already informed, isn't it? There's no blog for the 'haven't yet got a clue' sort, such as myself.

    It would need to be moderated comment wise, in a protective manner though, so that people didn't feel nervous of asking what to some, might appear as dumb questions. I've never been afraid of asking dumb questions.............I mean, the biggest fool, can ask the wisest ones, can't they?

    Happy Wednesday to all! I think I'll go and post some music, from the eighties. I have a sudden rush of nostalgia just hit me.

    So, let me know when you're setting it up and I'll bring a few friends across.

  29. Ros,
    Thank you for the compliment. I have considered blogging, but my knowledge would fit on the head of a pin. I would probably start to rant as well-although my ranting gets raves! ;).
    Jarhead is an appellation given to members of the United States Marine Corps, which I belonged to a hundred years or so ago. It was a pejorative started by sailors, but like a good Marine, we have adopted it for our own use. Semper Fi. is a Shorthand version of the motto of the U.S. Marines, Semper Fidelis. (Semper Fi, do or die!)

    Yours in Christ,

  30. Oooops!

    Sorry Scott, I didn't know it was to do with the Marines! No offence.

    You could start blogging about that first, (your experiences in the Marines, that would get lots of traffic, I bet) or mix the two or even have two. My blog posts ramble all over the place, as does my commenting. You'll attract fellow bloggers similar to yourself, you'll find. If you can comment, you can blog! You have compassion, much needed in today's world. The Pope wants that sort of blogger too!
    God bless, Ros

  31. It would seem their age isn't something they are ashamed of....

    Archbishop Allen Vigneron of Detroit will investigate a priest who said mass this past weekend at a celebration of dissent called the American Catholic Council, reports The Detroit Free Press. Archbishop Vigneron had warned clergy not to participate in the event.

    The priest in question, Fr. Bob Wurm, 78, doesn’t sound very concerned and gives a novel reason to the paper for his claimed immunity from punishment: “I don’t see that happening,” Wurm said. “I’m older than he (Vigneron) is.”

  32. Ros,

    No, there's only two. Kat's in NC; I'm in SC.


Please comment with charity and avoid ad hominem attacks. I exercise the right to delete comments I find inappropriate. If you use your real name there is a better chance your comment will stay put.