"I Want you to continue to go to the Cova da Iria on the 13th, that you continue to say the Rosary every day. I, in the last month will make the miracle that all will believe." Then with a sadder appearance told them: "Pray, pray a lot and offer sacrifices for the sinners. You know that many souls go the hell because there is none who pray for them." - OL of Fatima, August 19, 1917
Another word on Cardinal Burke
What Sr. Lucia stated very clearly:
As for the request made by Our Lady for the consecration of Russia, Sr. Lucia stated that is was finally fulfilled by Pope John Paul II in union with the bishops of the world in 1984. (Albeit late, as Our Lord foretold to Sr. Lucia.)
In another address, Cardinal Burke does demonstrate or links his opinion on Fatima, the apostasy, as well as the notion of an incomplete consecration of Russia to the interpretations of Frere Michel:
Cardinal Burke obviously disagrees with Sr. Lucia and the Holy See that the consecration was accomplished and accepted by heaven - Lucia specifically stated that the consecration was indeed accepted by heaven, and therefore fulfilled Our Lady's request. (Ed. note: As a reader pointed out to me, Cardinal Burke insists he believes the consecration was accomplished and accepted by heaven - he states that - yet despite that, he thinks a consecration should be made exactly as OL requested. See my note in the com box.)
"I now return to the third part of the Secret or Message of Fatima. Without entering into a discussion regarding whether the third part of the Secret has been fully revealed [...] Frère Michel de la Sainte Trinité, in his monumental study of the apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima, writes the following regarding the third part of the Secret or what is often called the Third Secret:
In short, the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary undoubtedly refers much more to the third Secret than even the second. For the recovery of peace will be a gift from Heaven, but it is not, properly speaking, the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Her victory is of another order, supernatural, and then temporal by addition. It will first be the victory of the Faith, which will put an end to the time of apostasy, and the great shortcomings of the Church’s pastors.[23]" - Source
Cardinal Burke obviously disagrees with Sr. Lucia and the Holy See that the consecration was accomplished and accepted by heaven - Lucia specifically stated that the consecration was indeed accepted by heaven, and therefore fulfilled Our Lady's request. (Ed. note: As a reader pointed out to me, Cardinal Burke insists he believes the consecration was accomplished and accepted by heaven - he states that - yet despite that, he thinks a consecration should be made exactly as OL requested. See my note in the com box.)
What Sr. Lucia stated very clearly:
The third part of the secret is a symbolic revelation, referring to this part of the Message, conditioned by whether we accept or not what the Message itself asks of us: ‘If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, etc.'.
Since we did not heed this appeal of the Message, we see that it has been fulfilled, Russia has invaded the world with her errors. And if we have not yet seen the complete fulfilment of the final part of this prophecy, we are going towards it little by little with great strides. If we do not reject the path of sin, hatred, revenge, injustice, violations of the rights of the human person, immorality and violence, etc.
And let us not say that it is God who is punishing us in this way; on the contrary it is people themselves who are preparing their own punishment. In his kindness God warns us and calls us to the right path, while respecting the freedom he has given us; hence people are responsible”. - Message of Fatima
As for the request made by Our Lady for the consecration of Russia, Sr. Lucia stated that is was finally fulfilled by Pope John Paul II in union with the bishops of the world in 1984. (Albeit late, as Our Lord foretold to Sr. Lucia.)
I come to answer your question, "If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?" Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made. - Sr. LuciaEverything else is speculation and invention - conspiracy theories feeding off of sensationalized interpretations of so-called secrets (occult) given to visionaries since the La Salette apparitions, so many variations of which make it difficult to ascertain credibility.
We are living the consequences.
Sr. Lucia pointed that out in one of her interviews. Even without consideration of the secret of Fatima, we know that the good are martyred and the Holy Father does suffer much. We see it happening before our eyes.
Yesterday someone commented saying he hoped the consecration of Russia would be made quickly - apparently because it is urgent to do so as soon as possible, as if to forestall some chastisement or disaster. This is the attitude generated by those who dispute the affirmations by the Holy See and the testimony of Sr. Lucia that the consecration made by St. John Paul in 1984 was accepted. It is as if it is not good enough for Fatimists, convinced they know better than the Church - even Our Lady herself.
"Private revelation is not on equal par with Scripture, Tradition, liturgy, magisterium." - Diakonos
"Private revelation is not on equal par with Scripture, Tradition, liturgy, magisterium." - Diakonos
In this centenary of Fatima, the clamor over the so called Third Secret has taken on the occult dimensions of Bayside-Necedah followers. Outrageous claims and conspiracy theories discrediting the Pope and Magisterium of the Catholic Church circulate everywhere. Talk about the smoke of Satan infiltrating the Church.
I believe these people are adding to the confusion in the Church with their over reliance upon private revelations to defend their positions and opinions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for clarifications concerning doctrinal content in Amoris laetitia or any other statement from the pope or fellow cardinals, but it seems to me it would be better to do so with respect, discretion, based upon sound theological and doctrinal principles.
I may be wrong.
What?
you do know that Fatimaist Fr. Gruner paid a visit to Bayside and received a secret message that Pope Francis was not the Pope! But the Anti-Pope! Fr. Gruner related his Bayside vision to other Fatimaists just before he died
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"received a secret message that Pope Francis was not the Pope! But the Anti-Pope!"
DeleteGasp! How is this even possible given that the former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was formidable as Prefect of the CDF under St. JPII? Would he not detect a pretender a mile away?
So then the good intentions of our beloved Papa Emerito, the goodwill he has shown towards our Holy Father Francis is all for naught?!
I never heard the above story either and it wouldn't make any difference because Bayside was and is bogus.
DeleteOh wait - I knew this. Big eye roll. Gruner was a crackpot anyway - and Ferrara is too. Of course Gruner would speak to Bayside people. $$$$
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind Catholic doctrine on Papal Primacy:
ReplyDelete...all the faithful of Christ must believe "that the Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff hold primacy over the whole world, and that the Pontiff of Rome himself is the successor of the blessed Peter, the chief of the apostles, and is the true vicar of Christ and head of the whole Church and faith, and teacher of all Christians; and that to him was handed down in blessed Peter, by our Lord Jesus Christ, full power to feed, rule, and guide the universal Church, just as is also contained in the records of the ecumenical Councils and in the sacred canons
... the faithful of whatever rite and dignity, both as separate individuals and all together, are bound by a duty of hierarchical submission and true obedience, not only in things pertaining to faith and morals, but also in those which pertain to the discipline and government of the Church spread over the whole world, so that the Church of Christ, protected not only by the Roman Pontiff, but by the unity of communion as well as of the profession of the same faith is one flock under the one highest shepherd. This is the doctrine of Catholic truth from which no one can deviate and keep his faith and salvation..." [Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Vatican Council I, 1870]
You said "He [Cardinal Burke] obviously disagrees with Sr. Lucia and the Holy See that the consecration was accomplished and accepted by heaven.." This is not true. Cardinal Burke has made it clear in numerous speeches and interviews that he believes the Consecration of JPII was accomplished and accepted by heaven. After a recent speech there were many who took his words out of context and made it look like this was his opinion, but if you read the whole speech you will see that's not what he was saying. He also believes, that given the controversy about whether or not it actually happened properly, that it should be re-done in a way that leaves no room for doubt. I agree with that. It can't hurt, it can only help.
ReplyDeleteThat is my opinion - I should have stated it that way. Despite what he says, I think he believes it was not done correctly - otherwise why the need to make a consecration of Russia? Yes I know MM says it would be reasonable because now Russia is Russia, whereas when the consecration was done it was the USSR. Fine, what would it hurt if it was done now?
DeleteWhy the urgency? I mentioned people think it has to be done soon. Why? As Lucia said , the errors have been spread, and so on.
If Cardinal Burke says he believes it was done - and you agree - I will accept him at his word then. But it strikes me as a bit of double talk, when you tell me, "He also believes, that given the controversy about whether or not it actually happened properly, that it should be re-done in a way that leaves no room for doubt."
That's exactly what I meant when I said, (it seems to me) "He [Cardinal Burke] obviously disagrees with Sr. Lucia and the Holy See that the consecration was accomplished and accepted by heaven.."
Believe what you want to believe.
Let me just add that this is exactly why so many otherwise faithful Catholics, including clergy, look with suspicion upon Fatima and those who promote the message - because there are so many inconsistencies and oddballs involved in disseminating the message - especially when they conflate it with data from other private revelation.
DeleteI guess I see him as saying clearly it was done, but why not do it again to satisfy the nay-sayers. He's trying to calm the waters. Blessed are the Peacemakers.
DeleteI hope so. I have to let it go however - it's not up to me to solve it. United in prayer, Terry.
DeleteI followed Fr. Gruener for many years. I found his mailings interesting and mostly historically correct. He strayed far a field in some important areas. He challenged the theachings of the Church and promoted an anti-Semetic fringe group much like Fr. Coughlin in the 1930's. I grew up in the 60's, but heard my father quote Fr. Coughlin on how the ills of the world were the fault of Jewish bankers. I never could understand this thinking and how it fit the Catholic beliefs I was being taught. I dismissed it as "old world" prejudice. Well, Fr. Gruener promoted it till his death too. His Apostolate was, and still is listed on The Southern Poverty Law's as a hated group promoting anti- Semitism. Fr. Gruener also challenged the RC hierarchy questioning their motives in regard to the third secret and in their legitimate teaching authority. Google his yearly conferences on You Tube and you will see the people he attracted and promoted. Most are conspiracy theorists and far out "science" debunkers. One I remember claimed that Telstar discovered a method to give us all free electricity, but the government stole his discovery and is hiding it so business could profit. Anyway, when Fr. Gruener died only the Society of St. Pius X, which he never joined, would conduct a furneral Mass. They embraced his teachings including anti-Semiticism. I hope he saw the light in the end and is now in heaven. Unfortunately his negative and false teachings continues to make the rounds on earth.
ReplyDeleteIn later photos he looks as if he may have suffered a stroke, which might account for his extremist views. The more lost or confused people become, the more they gravitate to these people and propositions.
Delete