Talk about over reacting...
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Looks like yesterday's Global Day of Revolution sure got people's attention/excited/panicked. Fr. Z took note and so did his readers:
There are massive and now violent protests going on in Rome at the moment. A journalist friend there says 6 police officers have been injured. Two massive groups, “gli indignati” including high school aged kids, and the “black bloc”, many wearing helmets, are aligned against each other, perhaps 500k at the piazza in front of St. John Lateran. The “indignants” are/were fairly benign, as I understand it, and were peacefully protesting big business, banks, government, blah blah blah. The “black bloc” are essentially leftist-anarchists out to pick fights and hurt people. Think Genova in 1998. - Fr. Z
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And This:
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Young Canadian RC Male says:
This is getting frightening. I may be in Canada, but should we be all acquiring the means to defend ourselves somehow? At least deadlier martial arts like MMA, Krav Maga, Jeet Kune Do, and Brazilian Ju-Jitzu (Gracie Family form)? or even worse?
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And this:
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carolg says:
Horrifying. Who will protect our churches? Do we now need armed guards lest we fall like the churches of Russia and Europe? Will we be forced underground?
Our Lady of Fatima, ora pro nobis.
Our Lady of Lourdes, ora pro nobis.
I know! Obviously these people weren't around in the late '60's and '70's - and/or completely self absorbed throughout the decades since then. Hell - what was Rwanda? Just a movie? Or the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina? People had to walk through sniper fire just to go to the market. Talk about violent civil unrest and threats to civilization.
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The anarchists have been hard at it protesting at national conventions, global economic summits, and so on for years now. It has been a build up of activity - and the economically secure have dismissed the riff raff as idiots - just as Fr. Z continues to do in his post. Money - and the threat of losing it - talks. And scares the hell out of people.
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There may be many people who have legitimate grievances involved in this whole thing, at least here in the states (I have no sympathy for the mobs in Europe). Certainly, there is a lot to complain about - and our politicians are bought and paid for. How anybody can be stupid enough to support the OWS crowd yet be willing to tolerate and even support Nancy Pelosi, Barak Obama, etc. is beyond me.
ReplyDeleteBut any anarchists, "antifascists" (basically Marxists who call everyone else fascists), and those demanding violent revolution or causing violence now are nothing BUT riffraff - and believe me, they hate Christ and the Church as much as they hate capitalism.
And to those who demand that capitalism be done away with - you can bet your bottom dollar that they are not Chestertonian distributists, but doctrinaire Marxists or disgusting anarchists - so what would they replace it with? And has anyone ever asked these people for examples of violent revolution ever producing a situation that was better than the one before, and not a simple reign of terror that plunged everyone except the revolutionary leaders into abject poverty? Yes, there's the American "revolution", but that may be the only exception to speak of, and in any case, the object was not to violently murder the king and te leaders and replace it with some revolutionary crap that centrally plans everything.
Its like the idiots in Germany who would destroy a bunch of stuff at rallies and demand a centrally-planned economy? When has that ever worked?
And say what you will about the Tea Partiers, they don't burn stuff and shit on police cars, and they do not demand violent revolution as par for the course. They do not trash religion, nor do they embrace anarchy (just as there are violent retards among the Tea Party, but the movement rejects them). There may be some OWS people in the US that that applies to, sure - but those European mobs are a different breed and should be treated as nothing other than scum. Of course, Europea system is nothing but crony capitalism combined with massive social benefits they can't pay for. So they've created their own monster.
"Haven't you people ever witnessed civil unrest or public protests before?" Yeah, Terry, that thought did cross my mind, it's deja vu all over again.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree with Mercury that the instincts of mobs are mindlessly violent and pretty destructive. But these things are symptoms; they don't happen in a vacuum. In a way it's a canary in a gold mine, society ignores what is going on to it's peril.
Thanks Mercury - you know more about this stuf than I do.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what will happen however? I knew a rich man in Boston who told me that the really rich do not have to worry about the ups and downs of the economy because their wealth is safe. He owned a few blocks of real estate on Beacon Hill and elsewhere. I didn't know what he meant but his proof seemed to be that his family never suffered any losses during the great depression.
I just observe things, and sometimes document what I see.
I found it an interesting reaction that a commenter at Fr. Z's suggested investing in gold and other metals, while another pointed out that in the 30's the Feds under Roosevelt reguisitioned all the Gold investments - or something like that.
Today's Gospel is give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's, give to God what is God's. I expect it was a different Gospel in the EF. Pity.
Again Melody, you say it better than I do. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteMelody - anarchists will always agitate no matter what the times are like, and Marxists will always attract idiot college students no matter how good or how mad things are.
ReplyDeleteHowever, they all LOVE it when times are bad, because then the manipulate things in order to get what they want - which is control and the ability to prey upon those they hate - which is you, me, Terry, and all of us.
Marx's doctrine is a doctrine of pure hate and has jack to do with compassion. Anarchists are nothing short of demonic. Such types will always be around, and they should be treated like the vicious, senseless, rabid dogs they are. I do not mean as individuals, but as a movement - their opinions are worthless and morally bankrupt, as well. They love violence and relish the thought of killing and destroying.
And by the way - why get mad at the banks and the like when there would be no way citizens would have to bail out the rich if the government hadn't made it like that? It's one thing to be pissed because you are forced to bail out a rich man with your tax money. It's another to simply be angry because he has more money and success than you do.
Some people, even many people, are excessively rich and greedy and they will answer to God when they die. But does anyone really think that taking money from the rich would make even one extra cent to go around for the rest of us? Money is not a finite pile of coins, nor is it a pie. If the rich banker makes $200 million less, that's not $200 million that could have gone somewhere else, but just $200 million that would not exist.
Terry - it's true that the rich do not have to worry about the ups and downs. But it doesn't mean that they are de facto guilty of evil because of that either.
ReplyDeleteTe rich people I know are all very generous with their money, and every now and then I will hear how they helped someone by paying their rent, buying a car, etc. God will judge the rich on how they spend their wealth and how they treat their fellow man.
Those Bolshevik pieces of crap would have them shot and killed just as their piece of crap gods Marx and Lenin would have wanted, simply BECAUSE they are wealthy.
I also know poor people who are greedy, envious and hateful. They would be given the guns by those anarchist jerks.
Any movement that needs violence, revolution, and destruction to thrive is of Satan. Screw the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Mexican Revolution, the Cuban Revolution and all of them. And let the anarchists and Marxists go live in the workers' paradises their fellow travelers have created.
Terry, the Gospel could well have been the same (it wasn't) but would, by some at least, have been interpreted in an entirely different way than you understood it. People, be they liberal or traditional Catholics, can use the Gospel to justify almost anything, and they do.
ReplyDeleteMerc - I have no problem with wealthy people or the rich, does it sound as if I do? Do you think this post was about that?
ReplyDeleteI'm not defending the protestors or supporting them either. Just like I never supported the Tea Baggers. Money is a neutral - it is the love of money that is evil. Envy and greed is evil - fighting one another - eventually the house collapses.
"Avoid greed in all of its forms. A man may be wealthy, but his possesions do not guarantee him life... stop worrying - the unbelievers of this world are always running after such things."
Little Way - guilty as charged. :)
ReplyDeleteNo, Terry, I don't think you feel that way - I'm just venting my own feelings.
ReplyDeleteI'd say that there is a fundamental difference between the Tea Party people and the OSW crowds, though. They both have their problems, blind spots, etc., but the Tea Party is based on wresting control back form the government using electoral and constitutional means - it actually demands restraint and patience. No one, except perhaps random crackpots, has advocated using force to seize and hold power, nor advocated death for their opponents.
Much of this movement is based on taking power and money by brute force - which is what it is when a government, organization, or corporation acts outside of its legal bounds. Many of the people I have seen are openly hostile to the very idea of the Constitution, which is not perfect, but can be changed via amendment.
In Europe, the movement is pure Marxism, pure scum.
Another thing is that communism, hard socialism, and anarchy, are per se immoral systems, they must operate against Christian principles and they must be fueled by hatred. In fact, they cannot exist without hate.
The free market can be abused and twisted to serve certain interests, but it doesn't have the be that way. And that's the difference - a free market, like money, is in itself morally neutral, whereas the crap that the OSW people are proposing is per se immoral. And there is a reason why you will also find support, not just tolerance, for free love, pornography, blasphemy, same-sex marriage, abortion on demand, etc. among one crowd and not the other.
Well said Terry, on great form!
ReplyDeleteMercury--I heartily agree with ya..
ReplyDeleteThe two BIG problems I see are the folks that bought a home where there was no way in hell they could afford the payments..yeah the banks had all these wonderful plans but ya know??? There's also a sucker born every minute...I always wondered how the young couple next to me could afford a townhouse with her only working part time as a secretary and him goign to school full time, knowing what MY house payment was and that I had put 20 percent down....yep foreclosed in less than two years...
I also am tired of hearing people whine about how they can't get work..yet we can't get hard-working folks to clean the barn at my horse shelter cuz the work is too dirty and hard ( we get plenty of illegals who apply but we can't hire them because of the government grants we get), or I interview people at the several positions we have at my company and they can only work certain times, don't ask them to come in early or stay late, what do you mean you have a dress code, and about panic when they discover that their cell phone doesn't work in my building (God forbid you actually have to use a landline, which by the way is monitered so you don't spend all day talking to whoever rather than doing your job) and you can't play on the Internet all day as your work computer is monitered..
Yeah..I really don't have much sympathy for some folks anymore...unemployment has made it far too easy on them...
Sara
PS Just a word of advice for all of you job-hunting..from someone who is part of a team in interviews....
ReplyDeleteWith literally dozens of people vieing for jobs or even just an interview...
It is your job at the interview to convince me to hire you..be sharp, be vibrant, be credible...every lie on your resume will be discovered, verify your references because we will, and come to the interview showered, shaved, and in clean clothes pertanent to the positiion being interviewed for. Arrive early and freshen up in the restroom..you are selling yourself to me. If you're going to be late due to traffic, weather etc or lost please call and let me know. I understand if you are nervous and flub a question or so.. I will always give individuals an opportunity in the interview to reanswer a question that they might have flubbed up on.
You're trying to convince me to hire you, not give me ten reasons why I SHOULDN'T hire you...
Sara
There is so much bile, generalisation and unnecessarily foul langage in some of the comments regarding this article - and hardly a mention of the Gospel. Shameful. As for the ignorant comments about Europe...
ReplyDeleteparapidemos - I was mostly referring to Germany. I guess I cannot speak for the rest of Europe. But Europe has made its own bed, too. If you build a giant welfare state and don't bother reproducing, what do you expect? And then on top of that you build an undemocratic super-state that relies on crony capitalism?
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry if my comments come off as bile-filled. I just really despise Marxism and "anti-fascism" and anarchy. I also have no truck with young people who love revolution, love destruction, and are filled with nothing but hate.
No, I didn't mention the Gospel, and shame on me. Certainly the Gospel is very anti-greed, and I really believe that those who are wealthy (most Americans, at least compared to the world) will have to answer to God for how they spend their wealth. And I think the very wealthy have a moral obligation to give away most of what they have.
But I do not think "the people" seizing things and causing "revolution" will accomplish anything Gospel-like. That can come by converting the rich, not seizing their assets, which would quickly be squandered as it always is, and no one will benefit. Again, please correct me if I am wrong.
I saw the campaigns of the German left and te Greens and what they are fighting for. We've seen what Zapata has done in Spain.
I'm sorry for my tone, really, and I would like you to correct me where I am wrong. I really mean that.
I like how the Holy Father interpreted that particular Gospel - from his homily Sunday:
ReplyDelete"A brief reflection also on the central question of the tribute to Caesar. Jesus answers with astonishing political realism, linked to the theo-centrism of the prophetic tradition. The tribute to Caesar is paid, because the image on the coin is his; but man, every man, bears in himself another image, that of God, and hence he is His, to whom each one owes his existence. The Fathers of the Church, inspired in the fact that Jesus refers to the image of the Emperor coined on the coin of tribute, interpreted this step in the light of the fundamental concept of man as image of God, contained in the first chapter of the Book of Genesis.
An anonymous author writes: “The image of God is not imprinted on gold but on the human race. Caesar’s coin is gold, God’s is humanity … hence, give your wealth to Caesar, but keep for God the unique innocence of your conscience where God is contemplated … Caesar, in fact, has engraved his image on each coin, but God has chosen man, whom He has created, to reflect his glory” (Anonymous, Incomplete Work on Matthew, Homily 42). And St. Augustine used this reference many times in his homilies: “If Caesar claims his own image engraved on the coin,” he affirms, “will God not exact from man the divine image sculpted in him? (En. In Ps., Psalm 94:2). And still: “As the coin is returned to Caesar, so the illumined soul is returned to God imprinted by the light of his face … Christ in fact dwells in man’s interior” (Ivi, Psalm 4:8).
This word of Jesus is rich in anthropological content, and it cannot be reduced solely to the political realm. The Church, therefore, does not limit herself to remind men of the correct distinction between the sphere of Caesar’s authority and God’s, between the political and the religious realm. The mission of the Church, as Christ’s, is essentially to speak of God, to remind of his sovereignty, to remind everyone, especially Christians who have lost their identity, of God’s right over what belongs to Him, that is, our life."