Sunday, January 03, 2010

Cardinal Schönborn's 'private' visit to Medjugorje...

Just got really public... and it appears that may have been his intended goal.
"These days, we have all come to Medjugorje to be especially close to the mother of the Lord. To be more exact, we have to say that we have come here because we know that the mother of the Lord wants to be close to us.
“You also didn’t see the Gospa. But there are people here who told about it. And we trust that the Mother of God really is close to us. Belief comes from hearing.  We are supposed to report what we have seen and heard. The world needs a new evangelization and that is only possible through people for whom it is impossible to keep silent about what they have seen and heard.

"And a last word: The shepherd returned, praised God, praised him for what they heard and saw. We, too, will return home. In order that we can become witnesses of the gospel, we have to praise God first. The shepherds praised God for what they have seen and heard. I hope that we can all drive home, travel home after these days here and praise God for what we have seen and heard. Then people will also believe us when we tell, then our word will be credible." - Homily
The Cardinal was considered amongst the papabili in the last conclave.
No comment.
Bishop Peric's response:
"As the diocesan bishop (with this statement) I want to inform the faithful that the visit of Cardinal Christoph Schonborn does not imply any recognition of the authenticity of the “apparitions” related to Medjugorje. I regret that the Cardinal, with his visit, appearance, and statements, brings something new to the present suffering of the local Church which does not contribute to peace and unity so necessary.

+Ratko Peric, Bishop"

Thanks to Diane at Te Deum Laudamus


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. Anonymous11:46 AM

  3. Pilgrim - God bless you.

  4. ..."was considered amongst the papabili..."

    Yep, proof again that the Holy Spirit is protecting Holy Mother Church!

  5. There once was a nun in the 15th century, I think who was considered a living saint. Cardinals came to visit her and recieve her wisdom. And she did miracles. On her death bed she confessed that it was all a trick of the devil. The high, the mighty and the learned can be fooled just as easily as the slop in the back pew. Medj. isn't another Bayside, I think supernatural forces are inbvolved but whatever is appearing there is not Mary.

  6. Dymphna - that is a wonderful reminder and example to be aware of. Thanks!

  7. “The high, the mighty and the learned can be fooled just as easily as the slop in the back pew.”

    And, may I ask Dymphna,, which group do you fit yourself into?

    All I can say about your statement is, what has it to do with the price of fish?

    Or even the cardinal’s visit to Medjugorje?

    And how can you be so definitive as to say Mary is not appearing there? Probably the same way people say she is. So who is the wiser? We shall have to wait and see.

    One thing for certain, if by your insinuation you think the supernatural force is evil, then satan and his crew have messed up big-time because this “force” is doing a very good job in renewing people’s faith in God and helping them back to the Church and the Sacraments. Seems that God can outsmart any of us when he wants to.

  8. Now, now - peace... Mir.

  9. I don't think the Vatican is going to invalidate this apparitions simply because there are too many people flocking to that part of the world believing they are authentic. On the other hand, I don't think the Holy See will validate them either. I think they're going to leave things as they are- at least for now.

  10. Dymphna: I think you are speaking of Maria de la Cruz, a Poor Clare nun, who fooled many. St. Teresa of Jesus(Avila)was accused of similar things, but she was "the real thing"...we have been watching the video on her again these days of Christmas; so inspiring, so encouraging.
    St. Teresa was the "real thing" because she was obedient, did not lie, and even if the ecclesiastics and men involved with the Reform of Carmel "botched" it up (her one line that I simply love is something like "Why did I entrust the Reform to men?"!!!) she never, ever gave her own interpretation of things as from God until it was approved by her confessor or superior.
    That is Catholic.
    This other thing, is well, I don't know, suspect?...

  11. Dymphna is right - even the devil can quote scripture.

    As for the slop in the back pews- that is my regular seat and yes, I am a disgusting, sloppy sinner. I needed a reminder of that today. Thank you, Dymphna.

    In all seriousness,
    Angie Messenger

  12. I see cardinal Schönborn, member of the CDF, has now come out and reiterated the Church position on Medjugorje following his visit there.

    Nothing has changed...

    No decsion until ‘apparitions’ have ceased...

    1991 Zadar declaration still stands...

    Supernatural not confirmed and not excluded....

    Pilgrimages allowed but not at diocesan level...

    Pilgrims should be supported at pastoral level when they visit Medjugorje...

    So there we have it... whatever the local bishop or any other may wish to think... Medjugorje carries on with the blessing of the Holy See.

    I wonder what made opponents ever think that the Holy See was going to “clamp down” on the Medjugorje phenomenon?

    The Holy See recognises a good fruit tree when it sees one. Shame not everyone else does. Still that life life. We all make choices.

    This is not remarkable “news” but at least things should quieten down now that the cardinal has cleared the air and reminded everyone where the Holy See stannds on the issue of Medjugorje.

    Now we can get back to giving witness to the mercy and goodness of God clearly visible through the graces bestowed at Medjugorje.

    Yes, there will be the usual knee-jerk from the local bishop and his acolytes – of that I am sure.
    But does it matter anymore. Rome has uttered the facts, and that’s good enough for me.

  13. Terry,

    You may be interested in a post I just made.

    Bishop Peric has released a statement - one of surprise and disappointment, over the visit of Cardinal Schonbon to Medjugorje.

  14. Dianne - thankyou very much - that is very helpful. God bless you.

  15. Disobedience is the fruit of the devil. So many saints have been told not to take action on something and were obedient; here, the "seers" as well as priests were disobedient to the Bishop. That's all I need to know about this phenomenon.

    BTW, I have received a Medjugorje medal for Christmas and have to get rid of it.

  16. Dianne - I reread the Bishop's statement - I cannot thank you enough for publishing it - I shall include it in this post. Truly - may God reward you!

  17. The Mostar bishop’s report does not alter the position of the Holy See in regards to its position on the Medjugorje phenomenon, no matter how many smokescreens he throws up. The facts are as the cardinal has stated – loud and clear. The Mostar bishop, methinks, has talked himself into early retirement.

  18. Anonymous3:58 AM

    C. Schonborn is a good man but not always very prudent in his actions. He is a scholar and doesn't always think about pastoral implications of his actions.
    He may have been considered papibili by the media and other people but anyone in the Dominican Order or among Cardinals knew he was not.

  19. “...not always prudent in his actions...”
    and the local bishop is?
    No, the cardinal knew exactly the impact his visit to Medjugorje would have on the watching world. And so what an opportune moment it became to reiterate the position of the Catholic Church on the Medjugorje phenomenon – much to the displeasure of the local bishop who would want the world to believe otherwise.

    The cardinal even corrected the bishop’s interpretation to the statement issued at Zadar concerning the supernatural question of Medjugorje: Non constat de supernaturalitatae meaning that the supernatural is not confirmed (as the bishop states continually) and not excluded> (which the bishop never mentions)

    As usual, the bishop, in his protests, never present the full facts.

    His criticism of the cardinal staying at the Cenacolo Community in Medjugorje is typical of the bishop’s lack of transparency. He fails to mention that the cardinal is within his right to stay at the community especially as it has Pontifical recognition from Benedict XVI. Instead he prefers to create an impresssion that the Cenacolo Community is off-limits when it clearly is not.

  20. Terry - were you begging for improved traffic at your blog? ;-)

  21. Anonymous6:58 AM

    I didn't see how this was ever a "private visit" to begin with. He knows Marija personally and other people know that, so how could it have ever been private and quiet? And I've always thought he seems to be the holiest Cardinal in the Church. ..Probably the reason he's speaking out for Medjugorje is because there's been too many criticisms of it.

  22. Anonymous7:11 AM

    Though the warnings are proof, what Critics don't realize is that Medjugorje is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    You have 3 choices:

    1.) Medjugorje is authentic.
    2.) The children are lying.
    3.) The devil is behind it.

    1.) This is obviously true.
    2.) The "children" are so natural and likeable and Good they're like family. After 25 yrs, no one has changed their story and said the others are lying, etc.
    3.) All the claims of disobedience and heresy just went down the drain with the Cardinals visits, unless the Cardinal is disobedient and in heresy? Though he's in the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith! ..For the devil to be behind Medjugorje, there would at least have to be a hint of his presence.

    Alas! Medjugorje is the Praying Church. and Fasting Church! It's what Heaven is like.

  23. I'm the slop in the back pew- as the priest who hears my confessions could attest-- and could we please stop referring to the Medj. "seers" as children. They are all in their 30s and 40s now.

  24. Msgr. Ronald Knox wrote a book called "Enthusiasm" which documents various movements throughout the centuries of Christianity/Catholicism.
    I highly recommend it as a way to understand the role of mysticism and the hierarchy in the Church.

  25. Larry - I know!

    Father - that book sounds great - I will look for it.

    As for the slop in the back pew - that is so me.

    Medj defenders - I doubt Our Lady of Peace would want you to be so defensive and agressive about all of this. ;) Sadly, your ecclesiology is really screwed up - Medjugorje is not THE Church.

  26. nazareth priest said... a book called "Enthusiasm" which documents various movements throughout the centuries of Christianity/Catholicism."

    I purchased the book over a year ago because I kept seeing in referenced in my other reading on the topic of spiritualism and mysticism, and related. I haven't had the time to settle down with it ... life keeps getting in the way....
    Master T ... from what I have skimmed of it ... I think you will enjoy it ... also a recently published book titled (I believe) The Occult in Russia, by a university press - University of Chicago? It addresses the growth of occultism in Russia ... and provides historical background too.

  27. I can only say, how relaxed, chilled and happy I am this week now that the cardinal has spoken and confirmed where the Holy See stands on the Medjugorje phenomenon. Not that those who express a positive view and even belief in the Medjugorje phenomenon should ever have doubted.

    What we have to understand is that the truth does not remain n the dark. It can be twisted, twirled, tossed and taken to task by those who oppose Medjugorje but it cannot be hidden.

    The smoke screens, the distractions, the other issues that some attempt to attach to Medjugorje do not change the truth, no matter how hard people huff and puff on both sides of the line.

    So now we can all relax knowing that the Holy See will also sit back and wait for events to unfold. It could take many years, perhaps beyond the lifetime of some of us who comment on this blog.

    I presume that we all share a common faith in God. What better than to endeavour to build on this faith, not just for our own sake, but for the sake of those without faith and, of course, for the glory of God.

    Now I shall retire from debate to continue working on my conversion – daily. If I continue with this I know the world will be a better and more peaceful place.

    I have no further need to defend, debate, protest, argue, prove or convince. The cardinal has shed sufficient light for all of us to remember that we are all part of the the same Body. So I will continue to go to daily Mass, monthly confession, pray continuously in various ways, receive the Eucharist and any other Sacraments available to me, and be ever thankful to God and Our Blessed Mother for my dramatic conversion experience at Medjugojre which enabled me to bring others there to share in that same experience.

    And no-one can deny me this, however much they are opposed to the Medjugorje phenomenon. Like Peter and John, I cannot refrain from speaking of what I have seen and heard, and by the grace of God will continue to do so.

    May I wish you all a blessed and fruitful 2010. May all our work continue to bring glory to God and God to those whose need is to discover his love in their heart.

  28. Anonymous8:27 AM

    Question: Do you all believe that the Pope has complete power over the Bishop who is over Medjugorje? Complete power?


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