Priests and guns.*
Martyrdom was once considered the highest form of witness and confession. Indeed, monks and nuns went out to the desert to embrace the solitary ascetic life because the persecution of Christians stopped. I have known enclosed contemplatives who longed for martyrdom, in a sense, it is the Carmelite's deepest desire - to prove her love for her crucified spouse.
At times I've wondered, what if a Christian has a gun, and what if he or she was called to martyrdom - but instead he used the gun against an assailant and killed him? He not only missed the opportunity to die a martyr, but he killed another person. He killed another, rather than lay down his life?
Just a thought.
At times I've wondered, what if a Christian has a gun, and what if he or she was called to martyrdom - but instead he used the gun against an assailant and killed him? He not only missed the opportunity to die a martyr, but he killed another person. He killed another, rather than lay down his life?
Just a thought.
Some trust in chariots or horses,
but we in the name of the Lord. - Ps. 21
What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? - Matthew 16: 26
Ryan Erickson
Armed and more dangerous.
A murder is only martyrdom when the murder is done in hatred of the faith. Sometimes people with guns are killing for money, or some other stupid thing. One can be killed by an assailant and NOT be a martyr. That's why I carry a gun (even to Mass), and why I encourage other Catholics to do the same. I know priests who carry guns while offering Mass as a way of being a good shepherd of his people - ready at any time to protect them from the wolves who wish to destroy. These are the good priests! Willing to do what is necessary to protect their flock.
ReplyDeleteCan you give the names of the priests and location? If not - why do men with guns need to hide their identity? Kind of like hiding the fact that you are a Catholic.
DeleteOh and answer one simple question - if the Mass (as Fr Z says) is the true, real, renewal of the Sacrifice in an unbloody way that once took place in a bloody way, historically, on Calvary.
Then please tell me who carried WEAPONS on Calvary?
1. The Blessed Mother?
2. St John?
3. St Mary Magdalene?
4. Roman Soldiers
5. Herodians etc...?
6. Jesus Christ Crucified?
Yeah....if the Mass is Calvary - you and Fr Z and other assorted gun nuts place themselves in the camp of the killers on Calvary when they carry guns to Mass - Calvary.
Answer please.....
Oh and I'm still waiting for many to die in crossfire during Mass because one you gun nuts got spooked....
Well said, dxv515. And didn't Jesus heal the ear of the slave who had it whacked off on Holy Thursday by one of the apostles in their zeal to protect Him? And tell that apostle to put his weapon away?
DeleteI do not want to go to Mass surrounded by a bunch of gun owners with itchy trigger fingers, nor by a priest who is armed with deadly weapons, no matter how good their intentions to protect me and others may be.
I want the priest at Mass to be concentrating on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and not being constantly distracted by wondering if any of us is a murderer. If we do not have our minds on the Holy Trinity and the Mass, we are attending Mass and receiving Communion unworthily.
I do not express myself well. I am not anti-gun nor anti-2nd Amendment rights, although owning a gun is not for me. But can't we simply leave our weapons and cell phones at home or in the car while we are at Mass, and give our full, loving attention and worship to our beloved Creator? If I have to be murdered, I would rather it happen at church during Mass than anywhere else, anyway.
Oh, you guys don't know scripture...Jesus, after his resurrection, tells the apostles to go buy weapons. One can only assume that meant for them to carry, and if necessary use them - maybe even when they offered the Mass. And Dxv151, for your desire to know who these priests are, well, that's not gonna happen. But I will say this, I know of at least five in the general area where I live who often carry guns and have permits to do so legally. Also, the vicariate where I live will soon have training for priests on how to use guns and what to do in an active shooter situation. After the priests are trained some of the laity, probably the Knights of Columbus, will be trained to carry concealed weapons in case something happens. We have a right and a duty to protect ourselves. Priests have a right and a duty to protect their flocks. You guys need to get over your Jesuit pacifist theology and come live in the real world.
DeleteI beg your pardon, Mr. Beckett, but as a Secular Franciscan and a life-long faithful Catholic, I do have some knowledge of Scripture. Where exactly does Jesus say to buy weapons?
DeleteMy husband has been a Knight of Columbus for nearly 40 years. I can assure you that they will not "be trained to carry concealed weapons". Won't happen. No.
The "duty" of the priest to protect his flock is from sin and evil and to lead them to Jesus by the teaching of the Church, and to provide the Sacraments of the Church to those who are disposed to receiving them. It does not encompass protecting them by being armed with deadly weapons.
I do not know anything in Church teaching that says "we have a right and duty to protect ourselves", except from Satan, especially by using deadly weapons on one another. Our duty is to love God and follow the teaching of Jesus Christ, and the teaching of the Catholic Church.
BTW - I have not studied "Jesuit pacifist theology", and I do "live in the real world". You presume to know things about me, and perhaps about Our Lord, that are untrue.
Peace and all good to you.
Very well stated Susan. Thanks.
DeleteMr. Beckett, respectfully, I cannot wrap my head around this - certainly not in church, during Mass. If someone wants me, they can have me. I ultimately belong to God, and I will not offend Him by bringing a gun into His house.
ReplyDeleteI think if a priest does not choose to arm himself during Mass, that it does not keep him from being a "good priest". I think his mind is where it belongs - on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and on leading his parishioners in the worship of God. Not on worrying about whatever evil may be threatening.
I wish you and all here the peace and goodness of God - Susan, ofs
I don't think you understand reality. A priest can offer Mass while carrying a concealed weapon and still have his focus on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and leading his people in worship of God. Just because one carries a gun (which by the way I do) doesn't mean they are constantly thinking about who might be a threat. It's just there, like rosary in your pocket. You're not thinking about it all the time, but when you need it, it's there.
DeleteReality is Jesus Christ in the Most Blessed Sacrament. No priest who truly believes in this would need to carry a concealed, deadly weapon on his body while offering Mass. Just because they "can" carry a weapon does not mean they do, or that it is appropriate.
DeleteMr. Beckett, You mean the Two Swords argument.
DeleteHowever this does not help in justifying carrying Guns DURING Mass
First. The two swords belonged to the Householder who supplied Our Lord with everything He needed to say the first Mass.
Second. The mention of the Householders Two Swords took place AFTER the first Mass was finished, and just before Our Lord and Apostles left the Upper Room to go to the farm called Gethsemani:
Lord, behold here are two swords. And he said to them, It is enough. And going out, he went, according to his custom, to the mount of Olives.
Third. Only one of the Householders swords was used by St Peter and that was on the FARM when Our Lord and Apostles were surrounded by enemies.
So NO apostle was carrying a weapon during the first Mass.
The Householders Two Swords were most likely outside the room where the first Mass took place - on the wall or near the door.
The Householders Two Swords were NOT on any of the Apostles when they received their first Communion.
Again - the Two Swords belonged to the Householder just as did the Chalice and other items needed by Our Lord to say the first Mass.
The Sword was used only on the Farm when surrounded by enemies.
So yes if you want to carry weapons on the farm when surrounded by enemies - go ahead - just don't carrying a weapon during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Weapons do not belong in Church during Mass.
You have no scriptural arguments to defend such folly.
Armed and dangerous - anyone with a gun.
ReplyDelete