I saw this on another blog....
"I know all about it, you can stop emailing me." Or something close to that. LOL!
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But anyway. Since Cutie is a validly ordained Roman Catholic priest, going over to the Episcopal/Anglican church, does that mean he truly confects the Eucharist when he celebrates Mass in the Anglican church? Other schismatics do.
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Cutie also intends to marry his girlfriend. As a married priest in the Anglican church, one day down the road - if he so decides - could he maybe return to the Catholic Church just as other married Anglican priests have done? It could happen... on his faith journey.
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Scandals have a way of raising questions, don't they?
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Raymond must be crushed. First Dave, then Berto, and Mel too!
The "what if" scenarios? Would is marriage be valid in the eyes of the Church? If he returns, would he have to be re-married, given the circumstances leading up to this marriage? Would he be committing mortal sin if he receives communion in the Anglican church? Has he committed a mortal sin by joining the Anglican/Episcopalian church, because in essence he has publicly renounced the Church? Or has he? Or, since one has to know they are committing a mortal sin to make it one, then if he "thinks" he is doing the right thing, it isn't? But, doesn't that play into situation ethics and all that stuff ... and is this the first marriage for bride? etc. etc. along with your original question ... also can he absolve sins of Episcopalians? pew sitter wants to know ... I am knew at this ...
ReplyDeleteAs the world turns - you are funny too. So many questions. LOL!
ReplyDeleteEpiscopal churches have gay priests and women priests, they might as well have fornicating priests. Anything goes in churches made by man, they do not adhere to God, but to the flesh, the world and the devil.
ReplyDeleteThe Episcopal churches also do not believe in the true Presence in the Eucharist--to them it's just a symbol. Well, obviously Father Cutie does not believe in the Real Presence either.
"It's possible to receive a Catholic priest straight into the Episcopal priesthood,'' said Bishop C. Christopher Epting, the church's national Deputy for Ecumenical and Inter religious Relations. Cutié would need to pass an examination in church history and doctrine and have two Catholic priests recommend his "moral and Godly character,'' but he could bypass the seminary"
Can you imagine any Catholic priest recommending his "moral and Godly character!? When he's been fornicating with the woman for years.
To me it just does not make much sense to give up an eternity with our Lord--as we conform to Him--than have a few years of sex with a human--not a good trade Father Cutie.
Answer to #1: Yes, it would be valid ASSUMING he has proper intention, uses correct matter, and the proper form (words).
ReplyDeleteAnswer to #2: Yes, he could return to the Catholic Church. But, he could never exercise his priesthood. Former Catholic are specifically excluded from the pastoral provision. (He would also have to be laicized and his squeeze's first marriage annulled.)
Objectively speaking, he is committing the public sins of concubinage, heresy, and schism. (Only he and God know the state of his soul.)
He would be unable to absolve anyone's sins as he would not have faculties from a competent authority. (Which is why SSPX confession are invalid.) Besides, we know that the Episcopal Church only believes in social sins.
Thanks Father for taking my questions seriously. Many people discount scandal attributing to those scandalized weakness or ignorance, yet the aspect of public sin is gravely serious and affects many.
ReplyDelete"He would be unable to absolve anyone's sins as he would not have faculties from a competent authority." - Fr. Erik Richtsteig
ReplyDeleteFather, please elaborate on this one ... I do not understand "would not have faculties from..." given this other statement, "Yes, it would be valid ASSUMING he has proper intention, uses correct matter, and the proper form (words)".
Why is it he would be able to "confects the Eucharist", using Mr. T's words, but not able to absolve sin?
As for your statement, "Former Catholic are specifically excluded from the pastoral provision...",
what does this mean?
thanks
-side note, something had been clearly wrong in Cutie's spiritual direction and supervision to allow him to fall so far. very sad!
ATWT--
ReplyDeleteConfession requires the juridical authority of the Church for validity not just licaity (the witnessing of marriages is a similar case.) This is granted by a bishop in union with Rome, hence an Episcopal bishop (who really isn't a bishop anyway) can't grant it. For more detail, look up the controversy regarding the Society of S. Pius X.
The pastoral provision that allows converted married former Protestant clergy to be ordained specifically prohibits its application to anyone who was a Catholic prior to his time as a Protestant. (This wouldn't apply to Cutie as he is already a priest.)
Well Father Erik managed to answer all your questions saving me a bunch of typing...
ReplyDeleteWe spent one whole year without a priestly presence at our RCIA classes due to our pastors illness. It required me to get real smart, real fast about lots of weird stuff that people ask and that type of question would come up often.
I have taken this matter to my heart. I had been praying that he would repent and remain as a Priest so I was so shocked to hear about his decision. The bigger sin here (in my humble opinion, please correct me if I'm wrong) is not the woman but renouncing his Catholic faith by becoming Episcopalian. I would have preferred to see him leave the priesthood but remain a Catholic. As Father Eric said, only God knows the state of his soul and Jesus has told in many private revelations that He does not like it when we criticize priests.
ReplyDeleteI do have a question though, if Father Eric is willing to answer. Fr. Cutie said this relationship had been going on for 2 years. What happens when priests celebrate Mass in the state of mortal sin? Do they consume the Eucharist? Is the Mass valid if they do not consume the Eucharist?
The Lord was rarely very dramatic in the three years of His teaching (as far as we know). Hence, He must've had a valid reason to ask aloud, "When the Son of Man returns, will He find any faith on earth?"
ReplyDeleteI dunno, but He's surely going to find a whole lot of tumbleweeds.