I wonder what brought this on?
Actually, it was the Irish priest who outed himself from the pulpit last weekend. I mentioned it here.
What was the statistic Jeannine Gramick cited? 40%-50% of priests are gay? And she and a whole bunch of others think they should all come out. That doesn't mean they are sexually active - I hope - but either way, if they all Got. Out. who would be left? What would be left?
I sometimes wrote on how homosexuals weren't supposed to be admitted to seminary or religious life, but despite the rules, they have been admitted and most likely continue to be admitted. I have no control over that ... Then there are so many questions. What if they used to be gay but are now just SSA? What if they were notoriously gay - but now just have another job that keeps them busy after parish office hours? What if they are gay and celibate - like gay-Catholics - and the actually say gay? Then Michael brings up the fact there are gay bishops and gay friendly bishops - then what do you do? What if you want to report a suspicious priest? Or request that a Courage chapter be established in the archdiocese and he won't let you because he's against it? What to do?
What to do Michael Voris?
I just want to be able to receive the sacraments and go to Mass - oh - and when I'm dying, please call a priest. Make sure it's not a woman though.
If it's not one thing it's another, isn't it?
Michael Voris and his pencil and his hair spray should just go away.
ReplyDeleteWell I have to tell you, his hair didn't look good in this video - I think the sideburns need some work as well. And he looked like he just got up.
DeleteWhat? ;)
While I see your point in that we need priests regardless of sin, I can only look at the results in my own archdiocese of Milwaukee where +Weakland was allowed to romp about for decades.... the result is utter devastation that continues to this day here. While we might have to settle for in some cases, there are cases like that of the local ordinary that can so effect the church that we have to speak (within our abilities of course)
ReplyDeleteI don't mean to imply I wink at sin or abuse, it just seems to me Michael gets a little too Howard Beale at times - the guy from "Network" - 'mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any longer.' I can tell you from experience this approach is always dismissed by those in charge.
DeleteI'm sure the problems from Weakland's tenure continue - not just in Milwaukee either - problems remain.
Like you said, we do have to speak out at times, exhausting appropriate channels, enlisting credible support, and avoiding blanket condemnations.
In the past I sounded off in letters in similar ways and was advised by one archbishop that my tone was disrespectful as well as my 'accusations' lacking in credible proof and or documentation. This was quite some time ago of course. My first reaction was a sense of resentment for not being listened to and I harbored a grudge and whenever some scandal came up, my anger got worse, and I became more disrespectful, scornful, and critical. I see that happening with Voris and a few other bloggers online who continually condemn and accuse, as well as agitate and contribute to a negative culture online and in their circles.
It sounds trite, but true and authentic reform begins with us. We need to reform our lives, deepen our spiritual lives in and through prayer and the sacraments and good works, as well as do penance. We need to deepen our prayer and sacrifices.for the Church and souls.
Does that make sense?
The extent of the self denial it takes to do this is only understood in and through daily effort - even hourly effort when one is online reading Catholics combat one another.
Oh, I'm getting to be that age - I really want a priest to administer the sacraments on my deathbed.
DeleteTerry, you are right.
DeleteThis Russian Orthodox saint, gets it. http://te-deum.blogspot.com/2015/01/st-john-of-kronstadt-on-sins-of-others.html
I understand your point. Sorry i was late to reply
DeleteI don't get the "open letter" approach he takes. Why talk "to" a group of people you know don't listen to you? It would be interesting to figure out the rhetorical advantages to publicly talking "to" someone as a way of publicly talking about someone. Obviously it adds force and a veneer of courage but how that affects the listener's response is less clear.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't get how one can so plainly promote suspicion, rejection, and contempt of the heirarchy as a means of being faithful to the Church. These things seem to pull in different directions. I think that's Voris's tragic flaw.
Excellent insight.
DeleteI think it is poisonous to promote an attitude of suspicion and mistrust - it becomes contagious and infectious.
Because Voris does not intend this to go to anyone but the fans he already has and to upgrade them to paying accounts and donations. His fans see a robust and masculine (I like how he reinforces the steortype that all gay men are feminine..oh, Mikey, Mikey, Mikey...) defense of the Church but he comes off as a demented fanatic. Voris is just pissy because of Pope Francis' attitude and his fans are the same.
DeleteWould the majority of straight men be attracted to a life of celibacy, ritual, pageant? I know many, many do and I am not putting them down..but really, who does he think is going to become the next priests? I also think that many men, gay and straight have a real calling for this and no matter what their sexuality they should be welcomed. My question to Mikey would be, why didn't HE become a priest?
Suspicion and mistrust is exactly it..kind of a Catholic McCarthy thing...ohhh there could be a homo behind every collar!
=
Your title made me think of this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQseahtPVAA
ReplyDeleteLOL. I was thinking the same thing! "Get out...GET OUUUTTTTT!"
DeleteThough I find the Amityville demon to be less strident then Voris but....
I don't really follow the Vortex any more, but things come to my attention when I'm looking at my feed, like your post Terry. I did just watch it.
ReplyDeleteI'm reminded of something my pastor taught in his Monday Night Catechism class the first year I sat in on it (he runs it yearly and it's open to any one, most especially those considering the faith or wanting to convert; but, it's also popular among cradle Catholics who just want a good refresher).
Father was talking about Baptism, if I recall, and how once baptized a Catholic, that mark remains and can never be removed, even if the person renounces their faith. He pointed out that it's really an error to say that someone cannot be Catholic and [fill the dissent in the blank] because despite our sins, we remain Catholic.
During that lesson, he taught us to never tell anyone to get out of the Church. When we asked him to explain further, he said that if it is a sin to leave the Church why would you encourage anyone to leave? Would you encourage someone to commit any other kind of sin?
One person asked about people who blatantly dissent. He returned back to his original point: If they leave the Church, which is a sin itself, you don't want it ever coming back that you helped them along in this regard by encouraging them. You can talk to people and try to teach them differently, pray for them when they won't hear it, but telling them to leave the Church is wrong. It's not our place. We do not have this authority.
I was struck by this because back then, in late 2005, I had not started blogging, but was active at Catholic Answers, discussing the faith in those threads. Needless to say, myself and several others all looked at one another, hearing Father's words, and slipped lower into our seats having recalled telling people to get out of the Church. Some felt inclined to bring it up in Confession, including me.
That has stuck with me like glue and when I hear someone tell anyone to get out of the Church, even in a broad way, I just cringe.
I'm not ignorant of the situation that prompted this video and the context. I'm sure many were scandalized by it all, but I have known a handful of priests who left to marry their mistress and that scandalized me. But no lay person, debating others in a comment box at Catholic Answers, at a blog, or in a video is going to change the situation. Doing a Holy Hour before the Blessed Sacrament in Adoration for the priest may actually save his soul.
"Doing a Holy Hour before the Blessed Sacrament in Adoration for the priest may actually save his soul." -DK
DeleteThat's beautiful Diane. I wish it was in 48 pt. bold helvetica, and that, by being displayed in that fashion, everyone would listen.
I am an adorer on Friday afternoons, 11-1, but had always desired to be a night-trooper, one who adores nocturnally, too. But it never came to pass no matter how hard I tried to push myself.
Then my 70-year-old kind-hearted, but agnostic brother, died from painful kidney failure, and I promised him on his death bed (I had no idea he was ill until three days before he passed; my siblings kept that information from me) that he'd be okay, that I'd pray for him night and day, and so I started with nocturnal adoration, keeping my day hours too. I wish I could verbalize the power and graces that flow from this form of adoration for those who stop by this thread, but I'll leave this from Fr. Mark Kirby, because these were his words that had been bouncing around my head for so long:
"By nocturnal adoration you will obtain from My Heart
things which cannot be obtained from Me in any other way,
especially the liberation of souls
from the influence and oppression of the powers of darkness.
"More souls are saved and liberated by adoration made during the night
than by any other form of prayer:
this is the prayer that unites you most closely
to My own nights passed entirely in prayer
during My life on earth." -From "In Sinu Iesu, The Journal of A Priest"
Read more here: http://vultus.stblogs.org/index.php/2014/01/visit-me-by-night/
Thanks again Diane. Along with Terry's posts, of course (Hi Terry!), I always enjoy your commentary as well.
It should be noted that the "quote" that Voris attributes to St. Catherine of Siena cannot be found anywhere in her writings. A lot of trad bloggers have used it, but they never give a source. Here is an interesting link to a Q&A of a priest on the EWTN site. Someone quotes this to the priest, and when he asks for a souce, there is no answer.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=399552&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu=
Voris has told his followers not to financially support their local churches and dioceses, he has condemned prelate after prelate, he has told Cardinal Dolan that something terrible is going to happen to him, etc etc. His entire "apostolate" seems to be all about destryong the Catholic Church in order to "save" it. He is a huge danger to the faithful, and it is very sad that so many hang on his every word.
That passage is well known, it is from The Dialogue, chapter on Mystical Body of the Church, section 124, page 237 in Noffke's translation from Classics of Western Spirituality. The five cities refers to Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboiim, and Zour.
DeleteSo many saints have reinforced this teaching in Sacred Scripture, which was in Lauds this morning:
ReplyDeleteEphesians 4:29-32
Never let evil talk pass your lips; say only the good things men need to hear, things that will really help them. Do nothing that will sadden the Holy Spirit with whom you were sealed against the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, all passion and anger, harsh words, slander, and malice of every kind. In place of these, be kind to one another, compassionate, and mutually forgiving, just as God has forgiven you in Christ.
Of course, there are those who see any call not to focus on the sins of others, especially in a public way, as somehow approving of those sins.
ReplyDeleteRight on. I don't even want to participate like being one of the 3 wise men in the processional at the start of Mass. Don't ask me to be a lector or anything else b/c folks like me are bad for the parish (seriously -- I'm ok at this point praying & obeying -- even if I suck at both). Just let me be.
ReplyDeleteSo liturgical dance is out then too?
DeleteOh well if I'm wearing my scary mask and unitard, I'm all in
Delete