Munich, Germany, Feb 3, 2018 / 09:31 am (CNA).- The president of the German Bishops’ Conference has declared that, in his view, Catholic priests can conduct blessing ceremonies for homosexual couples. - More here.
But surely this development, along the "discerning" lines taught constantly by Pope Francis, Terry, cannot surprise you? You love Pope Francis and what he stands for? Or what you thinks he stands for. I still cannot figure out who and what exactly the Holy Father "is" and believe, but you seem to know and understand him.
This German Cardinal with the unfortunate family name of Marx is a friend of Pope Francis and part of his inner circle and inner parliament, the "group" supposed to be "advising" him, if I have it right. Maradiaga from Honduras has already shown his real colors, in another area of Church life, if those "revelations" are true, we don't know yet. Now it is the worldly, rather Lutheran, German Catholic Church whose chief bishop shows us what Catholics in the new dispensation have to act out and believe. Bless these guys and gals, even liturgically ( they'll work out the exact rite later it seems. Protestant to the core. Between the "individual" priests and the "individuals" in the homosexual union. German Lutheran Cardinal Marx actually tells us that it has bugger-all (forgive the pun) to do with the rest of the Body of Christ. It is between "me" and "my s/Savior and the poor priest's Savior. Protestant to the core! LOL.
I know it when I see it, having being brought up in this kind of thinking.
My brilliant and loveable homosexual nephew, married in a civil court to his mate, has been looking on the Christian churches' stumbling and tripping over own feet to accommodate "gays" and give power to the "gay movement" in amusement for some years already. Actually, in astonishment.
Both of the them hate the "gay movement" and its victim-like political posturing. Father James Martin would give them a pain. Why? They have never been victimized and treated like garbage by any Christian, including those in their own families. We love them. They know however that "getting married or 'blessed' in a Christian church" is totally fake, and asking the impossible from even Christ, who is mercy but also the last Judge and the Creator of everything, including male and female. They know "their Bibles", as the saying goes.
They have made an honest decision within the parameters of post-modern/modern secular Western society. They "married" for reasons of pension, death of one partner etc. in a dismal office and asked me to please never introduce them as a "married couple" to anyone. Not that I would have made fools of them in this way, but anyhow, they love me too but know that I cannot approve of gay marriage, least of all in a church.
They actually think it is rubbish for any Christian "church" to bend backwards and draw a line through the teachings of Jesus, just to perhaps keep a few more bums on the pews. Hypocritical. They also feel strongly about never, ever allowing "gays" to adopt children or ask a lady to carry their semen to fruition to form a false "family" with two same-sex parents.
Are they real Christian believers, my nephew and his life partner? No. Of course not.
But they would never expect a "religion" to accommodate them and falsely "bless" their marriage.
Cardinal Marx would be a dishonest fool, in their homosexual eyes.
Well, in a way I bless them for their intellect and integrity around this question! I don't feel like "blessing" Cardinal Marx and his pals....
This is how they do it - what he says isn’t *technically* wrong - one could conceive of situations where a blessing was given to say, two homosexuals who have decided to live in chastity while continuing to support one another. Such relationships do exist, and they’re not for us to look askance at. But this is of course not how this will be interpreted, and the Cardinal knows that very well indeed. It’s a bone being thrown to the very powerful lay German movements that want to liberalize everything about the Church’s moral teaching, and the German Bishops will cave cause they literally can not afford to stand against the tide of the culture, due to how the German Church is funded by the tax dollars of registered Catholics, giving them an incentive to never rock the boat and to always “bravely” stand against Church teaching when doing so is popular.
Thanks very much Mercury! I just found your comment (and many others) in my spam file. How or why these things go there is a mystery for me. I'm glad I found your comment since you know how the German episcopate works and it's connection to the State. I mentioned it on my Facebook post - I think the Church in Germany needs to separate from the State or start rocking the boat.
Welcome to the FrancisChurch. This is the fruit of the Francis papacy. Francis will not condemn this, as he should, rather he will just let it go and cry "discernment" and "accompaniment."
In the article found in Fr. L‘s website, the good German cardinal responds to the question of blessing homosexual unions with “I don’t consider that appropriate.” Gossip case closed.
This apparently fake news story is being reported all over Traditional sites. Another example from the 1984 playbook. Ammunition meant to undermine Pope Francis. That said, I do think the schism is coming and everyone will be forced to take a side. It will weaken our already crippled Church. Recently I moved and live within five different RC parishes and a college Newman Center. They are slightly different but essentially the same. All predominately older congregations. Few families and fewer young people. Even the College Newman Center. So, where are the rest of the population? I suspect at home being "spiritual" or at the many and growing mega churches that offer rock like concert music, a gym and free babysitting.
Wallace - read Forming Intentional Disciples by Sherry Weddell. It's not all doom and gloom. The first few chapters deal a lot with statistics but towards the middle of the book it gives you really good information. They also have a FB page.
This is not fake news. Read the German. When asked if homosexual marriages can be blessed he says "yah." That's a yes as far as I can tell! The leftist modernists are calling this fake news because they can't deal with the fact that Marx is a heretic. Do you research and you will find this isn't fake news. What IS fake news, is the modernist roll back of what was actually said. Also the claim that this is being reported only by traditional sites. Crux, the AP, Reuters, etc are not exactly "Traditional" sites.
Even if true I doubt it would change much in RC attraction for gays. There are several breakaway groups, one in my Diocese, that claims RC roots that have woman priests and already does gay ceremonies. Not certain if they call it marriage or not. From what I see in my experience there will not be enough parish enrollment to keep many parishes alive past my generation.
Aloysius you are correct. Fr. Martin even affirms it. So it remains to be seen how this is dealt with. I'm against it and do not believe a blessing of a same sex union can be done, just as a blessing of an abortion clinic cannot be done. They may perform a ritual but it would not be efficacious. This is an unfortunate turn of events - there is no way one can equate a same sex relationship to a real marriage between a man and a woman - be it civil and/or sacramental. So this acquiescence by the Cardinal is very misleading and seems to me harmful to marriage. I am very disappointed with this development. The German episcopate has had and continues to have serious problems.
On a related topic, a few hours ago Associated Press released a story that members of the Holy Father's own sexual abuse commission have given evidence that the pope was made aware of claims against Bishop Barros in 2015. https://apnews.com/07e48f9e01c54ec496397f68bea5d30a
Curious Terry. Mine were always posted on the blog initially. Later just disappeared. Reposted by memory usually stayed. How, in light of the delay, could they go to spam? Is that your email or a blog spam?
Please comment with charity and avoid ad hominem attacks. I exercise the right to delete comments I find inappropriate. If you use your real name there is a better chance your comment will stay put.
We need to pray more
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteBut surely this development, along the "discerning" lines taught constantly by Pope Francis, Terry, cannot surprise you? You love Pope Francis and what he stands for? Or what you thinks he stands for. I still cannot figure out who and what exactly the Holy Father "is" and believe, but you seem to know and understand him.
ReplyDeleteThis German Cardinal with the unfortunate family name of Marx is a friend of Pope Francis and part of his inner circle and inner parliament, the "group" supposed to be "advising" him, if I have it right. Maradiaga from Honduras has already shown his real colors, in another area of Church life, if those "revelations" are true, we don't know yet. Now it is the worldly, rather Lutheran, German Catholic Church whose chief bishop shows us what Catholics in the new dispensation have to act out and believe. Bless these guys and gals, even liturgically ( they'll work out the exact rite later it seems. Protestant to the core. Between the "individual" priests and the "individuals" in the homosexual union. German Lutheran Cardinal Marx actually tells us that it has bugger-all (forgive the pun) to do with the rest of the Body of Christ. It is between "me" and "my s/Savior and the poor priest's Savior. Protestant to the core! LOL.
I know it when I see it, having being brought up in this kind of thinking.
My brilliant and loveable homosexual nephew, married in a civil court to his mate, has been looking on the Christian churches' stumbling and tripping over own feet to accommodate "gays" and give power to the "gay movement" in amusement for some years already. Actually, in astonishment.
Both of the them hate the "gay movement" and its victim-like political posturing. Father James Martin would give them a pain. Why? They have never been victimized and treated like garbage by any Christian, including those in their own families. We love them. They know however that "getting married or 'blessed' in a Christian church" is totally fake, and asking the impossible from even Christ, who is mercy but also the last Judge and the Creator of everything, including male and female. They know "their Bibles", as the saying goes.
They have made an honest decision within the parameters of post-modern/modern secular Western society. They "married" for reasons of pension, death of one partner etc. in a dismal office and asked me to please never introduce them as a "married couple" to anyone. Not that I would have made fools of them in this way, but anyhow, they love me too but know that I cannot approve of gay marriage, least of all in a church.
They actually think it is rubbish for any Christian "church" to bend backwards and draw a line through the teachings of Jesus, just to perhaps keep a few more bums on the pews. Hypocritical. They also feel strongly about never, ever allowing "gays" to adopt children or ask a lady to carry their semen to fruition to form a false "family" with two same-sex parents.
Are they real Christian believers, my nephew and his life partner?
No. Of course not.
But they would never expect a "religion" to accommodate them and falsely "bless" their marriage.
Cardinal Marx would be a dishonest fool, in their homosexual eyes.
Well, in a way I bless them for their intellect and integrity around this question!
I don't feel like "blessing" Cardinal Marx and his pals....
This is how they do it - what he says isn’t *technically* wrong - one could conceive of situations where a blessing was given to say, two homosexuals who have decided to live in chastity while continuing to support one another. Such relationships do exist, and they’re not for us to look askance at. But this is of course not how this will be interpreted, and the Cardinal knows that very well indeed. It’s a bone being thrown to the very powerful lay German movements that want to liberalize everything about the Church’s moral teaching, and the German Bishops will cave cause they literally can not afford to stand against the tide of the culture, due to how the German Church is funded by the tax dollars of registered Catholics, giving them an incentive to never rock the boat and to always “bravely” stand against Church teaching when doing so is popular.
ReplyDeleteThanks very much Mercury! I just found your comment (and many others) in my spam file. How or why these things go there is a mystery for me. I'm glad I found your comment since you know how the German episcopate works and it's connection to the State. I mentioned it on my Facebook post - I think the Church in Germany needs to separate from the State or start rocking the boat.
DeleteFr. L has a post which helps clear up what was actually said.
ReplyDeletehttps://dwightlongenecker.com/cardinal-marx-on-blessing-gay-unions/
Thanks for letting us know this, Terry. I will be reading the article while on my break at work.
DeleteDeleted my comment since I am guilty of rushing to assume the worst about Cardinal Marx.
I'm sorry but I'm praying, always.
Welcome to the FrancisChurch. This is the fruit of the Francis papacy. Francis will not condemn this, as he should, rather he will just let it go and cry "discernment" and "accompaniment."
ReplyDeleteWe need to fast as well as pray.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn the article found in Fr. L‘s website, the good German cardinal responds to the question of blessing homosexual unions with “I don’t consider that appropriate.” Gossip case closed.
ReplyDeleteI saw that as well, and I'm happy for it and most repentant for having used bad language against the Cardinal in my initial reaction. Thanks Diakonos.
DeleteThis apparently fake news story is being reported all over Traditional sites. Another example from the 1984 playbook. Ammunition meant to undermine Pope Francis. That said, I do think the schism is coming and everyone will be forced to take a side. It will weaken our already crippled Church. Recently I moved and live within five different RC parishes and a college Newman Center. They are slightly different but essentially the same. All predominately older congregations. Few families and fewer young people. Even the College Newman Center. So, where are the rest of the population? I suspect at home being "spiritual" or at the many and growing mega churches that offer rock like concert music, a gym and free babysitting.
ReplyDeleteOr online throwing bombs at our Holy Father while suffering from self-righteous indignation.
DeleteI can't help myself sometimes either ...
Wallace - read Forming Intentional Disciples by Sherry Weddell. It's not all doom and gloom. The first few chapters deal a lot with statistics but towards the middle of the book it gives you really good information. They also have a FB page.
DeleteThis is not fake news. Read the German. When asked if homosexual marriages can be blessed he says "yah." That's a yes as far as I can tell! The leftist modernists are calling this fake news because they can't deal with the fact that Marx is a heretic. Do you research and you will find this isn't fake news. What IS fake news, is the modernist roll back of what was actually said. Also the claim that this is being reported only by traditional sites. Crux, the AP, Reuters, etc are not exactly "Traditional" sites.
ReplyDeleteEven if true I doubt it would change much in RC attraction for gays. There are several breakaway groups, one in my Diocese, that claims RC roots that have woman priests and already does gay ceremonies. Not certain if they call it marriage or not. From what I see in my experience there will not be enough parish enrollment to keep many parishes alive past my generation.
DeleteAloysius you are correct. Fr. Martin even affirms it. So it remains to be seen how this is dealt with. I'm against it and do not believe a blessing of a same sex union can be done, just as a blessing of an abortion clinic cannot be done. They may perform a ritual but it would not be efficacious. This is an unfortunate turn of events - there is no way one can equate a same sex relationship to a real marriage between a man and a woman - be it civil and/or sacramental. So this acquiescence by the Cardinal is very misleading and seems to me harmful to marriage. I am very disappointed with this development. The German episcopate has had and continues to have serious problems.
DeleteOn a related topic, a few hours ago Associated Press released a story that members of the Holy Father's own sexual abuse commission have given evidence that the pope was made aware of claims against Bishop Barros in 2015.
ReplyDeletehttps://apnews.com/07e48f9e01c54ec496397f68bea5d30a
I saw that, but I'm content to trust the Holy Father's judgement and let the story play out.
DeleteI found your comments friends! For some reason they have going to my spam folder. I will check it more regularly. My apologies.
ReplyDeleteCurious Terry. Mine were always posted on the blog initially. Later just disappeared. Reposted by memory usually stayed. How, in light of the delay, could they go to spam? Is that your email or a blog spam?
ReplyDelete