No doubt, the revelation of the Third Secret in June 2000 was disappointing to many 'Fatimists'.
I think many people thought it couldn't be that simple. There had to be more. Sr. Lucy had a double. Cardinal Bertone lied. The Devil's Final Battle ... Fatima sensationalists made a career of speculative theories on what the true secret entailed, how there were conspirators in the Vatican .... the book, The Devil's Final Battle named names. The authors and people such as the late Fr. Gruner and his followers seemed to rank Malachi Martin right up there with Sr. Lucia as knowing the real contents of the Third Secret. Even people like Mother Angelica believed there was more to it than what was revealed.
It is said Sr. Lucia was at times amused by such theories, and at other times, deeply saddened.
"Some people are never happy! It is no matter." The Carmelite nuns with whom she lived stated: "It was painful for Sister Lucia to hear the insistence by some that the third part of the Secret was not fully revealed. She lamented: 'If only they live what is the most important thing, which has already been said... They only concern themselves with what is left to be said, instead of complying with the request that was prayer and penance.'" - A Pathway Under the Gaze of MaryToday, new 'discerners' and 'prophecy experts' online have been busy deciphering the latest mysterious revelations from Sr. Lucia, who had an 'enlightenment' which indicated a massive 'global calamity' may be in store for the world... A prophecy echoing all sorts of other prophecies for the 21st century which have spread throughout the world.
While not part of the formal secret, there remains the intriguing "enlightenment" that she revealed to her confreres in 1944 (on the earth's axis): "The tip of the spear as a flame unlatches and touches the axis of the earth. It shudders. Mountains, cities, towns, and villages with their inhabitants are buried. The sea, the rivers, and the clouds emerge from their limits, overflowing and bringing with them in a whirlwind houses and people in numbers that are not possible to count. It is the purification of the world as it plunges into sin. Hatred and ambition cause the destructive war!" - A Pathway Under the Gaze of MaryWorks for me.
Nevertheless, the essential message of Fatima is still to be accomplished - by us. Conversion, prayer, and penance: The fulfillment of the duties of our state in life, to avoid sin, to be faithful to Catholic teaching, and so on.
Our Lady insisted at Fatima: "Men must amend their lives, and ask pardon for their sins. . . . They must no longer offend Our Lord, Who is already so much offended." The Fatima message is a call for men to give up sinful practices which grieve God and draw down His chastisements on the world, and to make reparation for them. Commenting on Our Lady's request for penance, Sr. Lucia wrote: "The part of the last apparition which has remained most deeply imprinted on my heart is the prayer of our heavenly Mother begging us not to offend any more Almighty God, Who is already so much offended." -SourceSensationalism is for disaster films, which feed our appetite for excitement and cheap thrills - another factor which may account for why 'scare tactics' don't work very well in modern times. Our natural fear responses are dulled by external stimulus which overloads the senses and imagination and distracts our attention from the work of sanctification and salvation.
What is telling about the latest reports concerning the Third Secret (actually - there is only one secret, divided into 3 parts) is that in a later vision, Our Lady counselled Sr. Lucia not to interpret the vision herself, saying:
"Be at peace and write what they order you, but do not give your opinion of its meaning."In fact, Sr. Lucia left it up to the Church to interpret the meaning of the vision, and this was done by the CDF while JPII was alive, and Cardinal Ratzinger was head. Read it here. What seems clear to me is that many Catholics today, progressive, liberal, conservative, traditional alike, pay little or no attention to what the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith conveys to the faithful. From its teaching on faith and morals and especially sexual ethics, to the notification on false mystics and dubious apparitions.
Fr. Nicholas Gruner, RIP
Fr. Gruner was a great 'Fatimist' who seemed to have gone astray by conspiracy theories and theorists - authors of fiction and fantasy. He did not believe the secret was revealed in its entirety, nor did he believe the Consecration of Russia took place. He died April 29, 2015.
It appears Fr. Gruner may have accepted the Bayside apparitions as true. The Bayside events have been condemned repeatedly by the local ordinary. It seems to me that Gruner may have gone off track by making a sort of cult out of Marian apparitions and locutions. In this respect he reminds me of other dubious mystics such as Fr. Gino Burresi of the Oblates of the Virgin Mary, Vassula Ryden, Mary Ann Van Hoof, Mama Rosa of San Damiano, and many others.
I'm no expert of course, but it seems to me some of these false mystics may have been convinced by naive, even misguided, spiritual directors who believe the 'mystic's' experiences are authentic and from the good spirit - hence they urge them to continue on the path they are following - when in fact, both can be deluded. The blind leading the blind.
+ + +
Bayside visionary, Veronica Leukin
"Can you hear me now?"
I remember when I was reading Vassula Ryden's stuff. It helped when I was coming back to the Church. I drove up to Sacramento to see her. She was welcomed with long lines and applause in Sacramento, there was a bishop there to who spoke highly of her. I cannot remember his name.
ReplyDeleteThis was almost 20 years ago. The Church was packed and she was, it seemed to me at the time, so earnest and devout.
Anyway, time has passed I moved on from VR. I do thank you for the reminder from our Lady of Fatima.
I was once reading something on Vassula that she had been forbidden to speak in RC churches by the CDF. Let me see if I can find a link...
DeleteHere, from EWTN: https://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfrydn1.htm
I should note that I too used to be interested in Vassula when I first came back to church, but then again -and I admit this to my shame- I had come back because I'd found the whole Maria Divine Mercy thing (nonsense?) compelling.
Really, at that point I was following any "mystic" I could, without, you know, actually troubling to figure out what the Church said. Proof that God can draw good out of anything! :-)
Many people come back to the Church through the message of this or that mystic - be they true or false - once they are led back to confession and the Eucharist the Holy Spirit takes over. That is why Medjugorje isn't a serious threat to the faith of most people of good will - my opinion - not the Church's. If Medj is true, no problem; if false, Our Lady will take care of those who are humble and devoted to her. So you are right - God can draw good out of anything!
DeleteWhen these things get divisive and cults are formed, and esp. if anything is contrary to scripture and sacred tradition, then that should be sufficient evidence to stay away.
That's why I pay most attention to Father at Mass and to Abp whether at Mass or in his column.
ReplyDeleteYou are a good girl.
DeleteI think you should go see the Pope for the Holy Year.
I'll go if the holy spirit finds a way for me to go.
DeleteBilocation?
DeleteBilocation?
DeleteAs you know Terry, I have been wondering when you would mention Fr. Gruner in your blog. His wake and requiem Mass is one hour from me in Buffalo NY and Fort Erie Canada. There is a week long viewing and Mass on Saturday from a Civic Auditorium. Apparently no church is available for him. The hierarchy seem to hate him. Say what you will, he worked long and hard to spread his version of the Fatima phenomena. If the World was properly consecrated why do we not have world peace now? Well, he does not have to worry about that anymore. RIP Fr Gruner time may prove you right after all.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry no church will host his funeral - that seems unjust when so many others whose fidelity is questioned have been given Catholic funerals - I don't know the circumstances of course, but it is sad to hear that. As I mentioned in an email, I pray for him and hope he is enclosed within her Immaculate Heart.
DeleteThat said, you probably recall that when the Child Jesus appeared to Lucia while she was still with the Dorotheans, he said that the consecration would take place - but it would be late - and he referenced the King of France who had delayed the consecration to the Sacred Heart. As you know the French Revolution followed, the king and queen beheaded and France suffered as a result. It seems to me, since the consecration was late, the peace which followed the collapse of the Soviet Union has been fragile, since obviously the errors of Russia have spread throughout the world and so on. We see the effects in our own country.
The triumph is assured of course, but men have not yet amended and made reparation, and since the errors have spread and taken hold - as in legalized rights to divorce, contracept/abort, equality and liberty, resulting in same sex marriage as well as the requirement women's rights be secured and maintained in and through the right to reproductive health care.
If you read mystical theologians, many things promised can be mitigated based upon the response of men - likewise, God's ways are not our ways - he does what he wills. John of the Cross addresses this in the Ascent of Mt. Carmel when speaking of private revelations and locutions.
For instance, in another revelation, the Virgin supposedly said that the work of the devil will penetrate into the Church - cardinal against cardinal, and so on. Hence many lay people conclude that heresy is the work of the devil. But what if factions and mistrust of one another is the real work of the devil? The devil always incites confusion and division. What if the cardinal, bishop, priest opposing one another is what we have seen as a result of the exaggerated emphasis placed upon the more negative aspects of the secret of Fatima? Fomenting mistrust against the magisterium, the secret itself, as well as in the act of consecration finally made by St. John Paul?
What I'm trying to say is that the promised results may not equal our sensationalized expectations - which was demonstrated by how people rejected the revelation of the final part of the secret in the year 2000.
How big is his following? Does the estimated attendance exceed the size of the church? Having a week long viewing looks like they realize many will want to pay their respects but it's easier to secure civic space which will have better facilities for the care of pilgrims.
DeleteThat's a great reply Terry.
DeletePeople forget, I think, that Mary asked for a First Saturday devotion as well as the consecration. Almost nobody seems to mention that anymore. Matt Archbold, of Creative Minority Report, once pointed out that he thought the consecration had been done, but that we haven't done the second part of Mary's request, and that was why the Reign of her Immaculate Heart hasn't begun.
I know, in my own life, that all of my Saturday's are boring... until a first Saturday comes along. All of a sudden, everybody needs me to help them go do this or that, and then I don't make it church. I need to get better at saying "Okay, but after..."
"In Portugal the dogma of the faith will always be preserved, etc."
ReplyDeleteBoom goes the dynamite!
"Foment" is one of my favorite words. I have a Library Of Fatima. What I learned: I am very, very easily swayed....I am naive: I have poor judgement. I am .... sometimes "enthusiastic". The best: I have learned to simply not trust myself. What do those matters really have to do with me; God placed me here, living a simple life, if I but accept this grace. Opportunities to go to Mass: Opportunities to be kind: lessons to learn about never judging others: It is a great, great grace to be able to pray: go to Mass: & wait upon the Lord. oh, yes: wait....
ReplyDeleteMy books now fill my food cupboard. My dining room table is full of drawing supplies. I have moments of peace. But: it Is awfully suspenseful, and interesting, isn't it, all the apocalyptic musings going on.
I've been really enjoying these latest posts of yours Terry !
"the Virgin supposedly said that the work of the devil will penetrate into the Church - cardinal against cardinal, and so on. Hence many lay people conclude that heresy is the work of the devil. But what if factions and mistrust of one another is the real work of the devil? The devil always incites confusion and division. What if the cardinal, bishop, priest opposing one another is what we have seen as a result of the exaggerated emphasis placed upon the more negative aspects of the secret of Fatima? Fomenting mistrust against the magisterium, the secret itself, as well as in the act of consecration finally made by St. John Paul?"
ReplyDeleteGood insight, Terry as I pondered the same after reading this piece by the editors of OSV;
https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/ByIssue/Article/TabId/735/ArtMID/13636/ArticleID/17449/Editorial-Unseemly-behavior-.aspx
Thumbs up Terry for what you've said today
ReplyDeleteI second your emotion Terry !
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFr. Gruner was a suspended RC priest. He and his followers are not welcomed in any RC churches. Bishop Falley SSPX prelate will preside at a requiem Mass. Fr. Gruner had a world wide following and there maybe a large crowd in attendance, but there are plenty of large churches in this area. I think it is more of a statement on his official suppression in The RC church. It will be interesting how many do attend. He always identified himself as an RC priest and contested the suspension as invalid. He never officially identified as a member of the SSPX group although his messages seemed more in line with them. The Hiearchy actively discouraged any involvement with him, especially financial. It will be interesting what becomes of his organization which is heavily into publications, conferences and speaking tours. There does not seem to be another priest who can step in to carry on. I think the predictions regarding the cardinals against cardinals and bishops against bishops all on the road to perdition is from Garabandal visionaries not Fatima. He seemed to quietly support Garabandal which is not a Church approved mystical event.
ReplyDeleteIf he's suspended, he's suspended. Questioning the validity of the suspension reinforces the need for it. Did I mention that I pay attention to Father and to Archbishop? I know that they don't let random priests show up for mass.
ReplyDeleteThe quote about "Cardinals against Cardinals, and Bishops against Bishops" is from Akita, an approved apparition.
ReplyDeleteThanks Father - that is true, nevertheless it gets to be co-mingled with other apparitions, and often repeated as being part of the 3rd secret which Fatimists insist haven't been revealed - for example, copy and paste the following link in your browser:
Deletehttp://www.rosesfromheaven.com/virginmary/3rdSecret_revealed.html
Visions and locutions, even though from God, can mislead us.
ReplyDeleteSt. John of the Cross in Chapter 19 of the Ascent lays out proof from Scripture on how this can be, for the sake of brevity, I will only high light a few passages to help explain the dangers and misunderstandings locutions can and do generate.
"We mentioned the two reason why, although God's visions and locutions are true and certain in themselves, they are not always so for us. The first reason is because of our defective manner of understanding them, and the second because their basic causes are sometimes variable.
Clearly in regard to the first, not all revelations turn out according to the literal meaning. The cause is that, since God is immense and profound, he usually embodies in his prophecies, locutions, and revelations other ways, concepts, and ideas remarkably different from the meaning we generally find in them. And the surer and more truthful they are, the less they seem so to us.
We behold this frequently in Scripture. With a number of the ancients, many of God's prophecies and locutions did not turn out as they had expected, because they interpreted them with their own different and extremely literal method."
Visions and locutions, even though from God, can mislead us.
ReplyDeleteSt. John of the Cross in Chapter 19 of the Ascent lays out proof from Scripture on how this can be, for the sake of brevity, I will only high light a few passages to help explain the dangers and misunderstandings locutions can and do generate.
"We mentioned the two reason why, although God's visions and locutions are true and certain in themselves, they are not always so for us. The first reason is because of our defective manner of understanding them, and the second because their basic causes are sometimes variable.
Clearly in regard to the first, not all revelations turn out according to the literal meaning. The cause is that, since God is immense and profound, he usually embodies in his prophecies, locutions, and revelations other ways, concepts, and ideas remarkably different from the meaning we generally find in them. And the surer and more truthful they are, the less they seem so to us.
We behold this frequently in Scripture. With a number of the ancients, many of God's prophecies and locutions did not turn out as they had expected, because they interpreted them with their own different and extremely literal method."
""Can you hear me now?" ROFL!
ReplyDelete*sigh* There are so many of these (visionaries and locutionists) competing for our attention right now. Economic crash in 2015, something "big" purported to happen in 2017.
ReplyDeleteI was so frustrated by this stuff that I took it to prayer, and what was my answer? Keep praying and don't be distracted by the...distractions.