Two guys I know are planning to get married - now that it is legal in Minnesota.
They obviously heard from their financial advisor that it would be more beneficial for them to do so. They explained to me a couple of weeks ago their decision would be based upon whether or not it was to their benefit financially.
How romantic.
Oh, come on now, Terry. Are you seriously contending that a straight couple would not consider and discuss the financial savings and benefits of civil marriage when planning their lives together?
ReplyDeleteOr that in the whole history of the world, no marriage between straight people ever took place for legal, political or financial gain (like, almost every marriage of aristocracy that took place for hundreds of years.) Marrying for "romantic," reasons is fairly new.
DeleteMy partner and I have been together for 20 years through ups and downs, we aren't going anyplace and we don't need anyone else's approval or a contract to keep us together. The only reason we would be civil married is to protect each other and our family legally and financially. No changing the definition of marriage, not wanting the Church to marry us (would be nice but at this point and age in the game not needed in the least) I would think at least 80 percent of gay or straight couples together for years would think the same way.
Though I would like to throw one of those goofy ceremonies to recoup some of the wedding gifts we have given to our straight friends through the years, not to mention anniversaries, when their kids are born, when they are baptized, birthdays, communions, graduations, and then a whole new generation starts the money train again : )
DeleteOh, come on now, Michael - these guys are friends of mine - I've known them for almost 20 years now. They had absolutely no interest in the marriage issue - none. Like many gay men they felt no need or desire for it. Too bourgeois? In part. However, now that doing so benefits them financially - one partner's social security would be higher than the other's, amongst other things. One of them is likewise all enthused to go through with it - big party and gifts and all.
ReplyDeleteHi Mack.
Again Terry that was what a lot of us were very upfront about going into this, accessing over 1000 benefits that straight couples have. That is what people (well a lot) were talking about "equality."
ReplyDeleteAs for bourgeois..I think I have that stamped on my forehead!
"Again Terry that was what a lot of us were very upfront about going into this, accessing over 1000 benefits that straight couples have."
DeleteSo it is envy and greed which motivates most gay people who want to play at marriage then? Looks that way.
It's funny that you should post about this at this time. On Wednesday I attended the wedding of two male friends of mine in Iowa. They've been together for 15+ years. They met when they were both in the seminary. One of them is now an Old Catholic chaplain in the military. He's being deployed to Kuwait in a couple of weeks. Now, on a very fundamental level, everyone who knows these guys have long recognized them as a married couple, but by going through the civil marriage process, the non-military partner will now get some very important and helpful health benefits. I fail to see how this is being envious or greedy.
ReplyDeleteDon't be so hard on yourself Michael.
DeleteBut Mack, singles and childless couples go through the same gifting without receiving. A gift isn't supposed to be transactional. Is it really a gift if your expectation is that you should receive in return?
ReplyDeleteThis is why I frequently give occasion-free gifts; there's no expectation of reciprocity and no whining about giving but not receiving.
@Michael J Bayly:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/26/the-defiant-selfabsorptio_n_3504815.html
Nan,
DeleteI don't see your point in this link...some goofy self absorbed queen is having 8 weddings (sound exhausting to me.)
And of course I know that you give a gift with no expectation of receiving I was being facetious..geez is my sense of humor that bad?
Okay, let's put it this way, I want to make all my friends do the Chicken Dance or Y.M.C.A against their wills.
Catholics believe in Both And so I'd make them do the Chicken Dance and YMCA.
DeleteCan't tell on blog that you were facetious and I know people who genuinely feel a sense of martyrdom due to requests for gifts and failure of reciprocation due to their state in life...have already been baptized, confirmed, etc.
I do periodically read of single women who throw themselves a wedding reception without a groom or with a plastic inflatable groom of some type. Totally based on jealousy and having been to/in weddings, bought dresses and gifts and not received the same.
Link struck me as over-the-topical so I posted it. I expected it to be hetero couple who were just crazy consumers or had family ties/demands in too many places and was surprised that it was a gay couple; I didn't read the whole article but am wondering whether they now must continue getting married in each state that makes it legal, collecting the whole set, as it were.
DeleteBut if they get divorced, do they have to get a complete set of divorces?
Nan..link was funny. Its kind of like my grandparents going state to state to collect shot glasses..okay so all my family have an odd sense of humor. Yea not sure on the divorce thing but wow...you would forget where you got married!
DeleteAhhhh, Terry, you are putting words in my mouth and jumping to an assumption and being reactive. You know as well as I do that I did not say that. I have no envy for anyone else and I think most gay people love that their friends and family are hopefully happily married and supportive of them. Maybe some are envious and spitefull but the world if full of envious people, gay and straight. As a whole I think all of us want what is best for our friends and family, so that is why it is hard to imagine people being anti-"civil," gay marriage.
ReplyDeleteI could flip that same argument around and say that an anti gay marriage person is being greedy by keeping the benefits to themselves. Actually it is worse then that as no benefits are lost to them. Were women jealous of men when they wanted the right to vote? Is a woman who does the same job as me greedy when she wants to be paid the same as me?
Wanting to be treated fairly is not about envy. Wanting full access to benefits is not about greed.
Playing marriage is once again a fun little snarky phrase..but how does one "play at being married?" Not to be snarky myself but hit me back in 20 years after living with and loving someone else besides yourself, seeing their strengths and flaws, but still loving them, dealign with their issues, but still loving them, being the one to sometimes have to carry the person, but still loving them and then come talk to me about "playing at marriage." Deal with kids, aging parents, families, finances, how to load the dishwasher and talk to me about "playing at marriage."
You don't know me very well, do you.
DeleteNo Terry I don't and I really don't mean to be an a hole buy will cop to it if I am. Clue my dumb self in.
DeleteLarry Sinclair, pointed out that some of this 'marriage' doma is because of TAX benefits. He suggests that the Government shouldn't be allowed in the Marriage business at all. Taxes should be based on individuals no matter their relationship or parental status. I thought that was interesting. https://www.lsnewsgroup.com/supreme-court-rules-doma-unconstitutional/
ReplyDeleteThank you for being so open about the same sex issues in our church and culture.