"Are we prepared to promote conditions in which the living contact with God can be reestablished? For our lives today have become godless to the point of complete vacuity. God is no longer with us in the conscious sense of the word. He is denied, ignored, excluded from every claim to have a part in our daily life." - Alfred Delp, S.J.

Thursday, June 25, 2015

Told you so. Medjugorje.

You could practically write a whole book about what happened to me...


How do I know these things?  What? 
Rome, Italy, Jun 25, 2015 / 12:13 pm (CNA).- If reports in Italian media outlets are to be believed, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith met June 24 to discuss the alleged Marian apparitions in Medjugorje, reaching the conclusion that they are inauthentic, but recognizing the site as a place of prayer. - Read the rest here.
So there you go Poodles.

Let your yes be yes and your no no.

Now for other doctrinal teachings...


  • Is the SSPX schismatic or not?



  • Can homosexuals be ordained or not?



  • Did the Archbishop of MPLS/St. Paul do anything wrong?



  • Can married deacons still have sexual relations with their wives?



  • Was it homosexuality or pedophilia when the stories of abuser priests came out.



  • Is Theology of the Body infallible dogma?



  • Is anything still a mortal sin? 



  • Is Islam a religion of peace?



  • Can Popes write encyclicals?



  • Do cats go to heaven?



  • Can Lesbians have their kids baptised?


There are so many questions these days...

According to the reports, the congregation did acknowledge Medjugorje as a place of prayer and devotion that can be visited by pilgrims for prayer, though without contacting the supposed visionaries or participating in their 'apparitions'. - CNA

I suspected that would be the case - similar to the events in  Ezkioga, Northern Spain in the 1930's - which I have written about in the past, and most recently here.

Contrary to what most critics say, I doubt there will be a schism over this - or a great rebellion or falling away.  I may be wrong.  The followers of Medjugorje probably equal the number of those who consider themselves to be SSPX-ers.  More peripheries to visit.  

19 comments:

  1. The CNA report kicks off with: “If reports in Italian media outlets are to be believed…” I wonder why :)

    The report posted by Italian journo Gianluca Barile who stated that the CDF held its plenary meeting on Wednesday and then quotes from a source at that meeting.

    But did this meeting happen? Not according to Radio Maria. Fr Livio, the station director tweeted: “La Congregazione per la Dottrina sulla fede non ha tenuto alcuna Plenaria su Medjugorje. Dormite tranquilli. La Gospa veglia (PL)”.

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    1. Well - I said I could be wrong. :)

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    2. Forgot to add - I read it on Patheos first.

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  2. The answers are, I think (but then I'm not infallible): No, Yes (but maybe it should be no), Probably (but we're not quite sure what), Yes, Both, No, Yes, No, Yes, No, Yes. Hopefully you're grading on a curve.

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    1. We agree on everything except cats! Oh Mitchell! That means I'm right then - right? :)

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  3. The answer to question 1 is definitely YES! SSPX is schismatic. They are a self proclaimed breakaway group which defy and contradict many of the Church's current teaching. Do not confuse schism with excommunication. Schism can and does exist without a formal proclamation of excommunication. The Vatican is very patient with breakaways always trying to bring them back into the fold. Read the SSPX's documents on their website and you will clearly see they put themselves above and beyond the authority of Rome. As for Medjurgorie, Terry this, if true, will be explosive. Never have I encouraged a more militant group of believers then them. This is big business and involves millions of dollars annually for the city and the visionaries. I predicate all hell will break loose if the Vatican pronounces them as not of divine origin. I wish people would look to Garabandal and the Vatican would study that event. Two of the three visionaries are still alive and live humble and prayerful lives and never have capitalized on it for monetary gain. They are likely far more authentic then their Medjurgorie counterparts.

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    1. And you've encouraged it?

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    2. I've encouraged nothing Nan - what?

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  4. +JMJ+

    I ran into a Medjugorie supporter after that report got published. She said that this new "persecution" only strengthens her faith in the validity of the apparitions. On an abstract level, I found her reaction interesting. If the same thing (e.g., a proclamation from Rome) can be used both as proof that something is wrong and as proof that something is right, then how can anyone, on either side, ever be objectively convinced of anything?

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    1. For me the problem is disobedience; the seers have been told by two bishops to shut the hell up and insisted that it had to go to the Vatican when it is the local ordinary who determines whether an apparition is sanctioned. The seers continue their public acts. And one of the messages was from Mary, denouncing the Bishop, which is completely different than the message she gave to Bernadette, to do what she was told. It's also concerning that the followers put more faith in the apparition than in the magisterium and get upset that others don't believe in a private revelation when we're not required to do so.

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    2. Isn’t ‘disobedience’ a problem for all of us?

      We sin – even for bishops it’s a problem. We disobey the Father’s will.

      Should we expect of others what we can’t deliver ourselves – to be sinless?

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    3. Disobeying the Bishop when a directive has been made publically is different than the average sin. They know better but prefer to make money.

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    4. +JMJ+

      Nan, I think you misunderstood my point. Which is that if a statement from Rome can be taken both as evidence in support of something and evidence against it, what is it actually worth in a debate?

      Let's say a person carries a rabbit's foot around for luck and his house burns down one night while his family is on holiday? Is the destruction of his home proof that the rabbit's foot didn't work, or is his family's being away and out of danger proof that it does? Either side could make a fantastic case with the dame evidence.

      In short, this

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  5. Vatican Insider’s Andrea Tornielli also rebuts the report put out by Gianluca Barile.

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  6. MegaFORGERY. That is all.

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  7. Can Popes ride bicycles?

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  8. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  9. BG I think your rationalization that everyone does it does not hold water in this instance. The Visionaries disobedience is extreme and effecting thousands of faithful. Any spirit manifestation can be from one of two sources; Divine and therefore good or evil and therefore bad. Never in any other vision has Our Lady, Jesus or the Saints counseled disobedience. Something about Medjurgorie feels wrong. The Visionaries are reported to wear designer clothes, drive expensive autos, travel the world in style, have investments in travel pilgrimage companies and hotels in Medjurgorie. If half of this is true they risk appearing as frauds. MDM, yet another one, tried to play the same game. It backfired on her and she has disappeared underground for now. I feel there will not be a good resolution to the Medjurgorie saga. The Vatican let it go unsupervised for far too long. The true believers will remain as such. They will dismiss us as fools.

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  10. Which half do you imagine to be true or false? :)

    And which visionaries are you referring to? All six?

    And who is to say that Our Lady has counseled disobedience in the case of the Medjugorje seers?

    Which brings me back to the point I made originally.

    Rationalise as much as you want, but sin, as our first parents discovered, is nothing less than acting against the will of God. Disobedience.

    So whether we are a visionary, a true beleiver, the pope or plain ‘joe bloggs’, there’s no hiding our nakedness, whatever clothes we cover up in, fig leaves or Armani suits. God sees our heart.

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