Doesn't make me upset. Occasionally I get an outraged person on my own blog too saying I post nothing but anti gay bigotry on my site. (Not true, I post a lot of other bigotry as well --against sin and scandal.) So keep on posting, Terry. You are always charitable and on target. If you make people upset it's no doubt because their consciences are pricking them. And that's a good thing. When we teamed Engaged Encounter we challenged couples who were living together to separate until their weddings. If they didn't get upset we were more concerned than if they did. (Unless they already decided to separate for the duration.)
Terry, there is a big difference between disagreeing and "getting upset." Gay issues have become a hot button issue because homosexuality has become completely acceptable in our culture, and of course the lifestyle is and always will be rejected by the Catholic Church as intrinsically disordered and morally unacceptable. The question is, how do we approach a society that views us as bigots and haters? Do we just say "you are a sinner" and let the chips fall where they may? I think that in concern for people's souls, we have to find a way to approach those who disagree with us in a way that does not dilute the message of the Church but at the same time includes the Gospel message of love and acceptance.
We can disagree on this, but I don't think that is a reason to just shut down the discussion. In fact, I think that is all the more reason to discuss these issues.
I do hope you will rethink your decision on whether to post on these issues in the future. Your input is very important.
I'm much newer to blogging than you are, but I am learning that those who disagree with me (and in my case, that is most people) actually help me more than those who agree with me because it forces me to think deeper about the issues. I am learning that even if some of the comments are meant as personal digs, I have to just let that roll off of me.
I think we have done a disservice to everyone by detaching ourselves from the fundamental truth: All sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin. Within marriage, all sexual activity which is not ordered toward procreation (whether successful or not) is a sin.
Once we have allowed the spiritual friendship crowd to gray what is not gray at all, we place souls in jeopardy.
Not to mention the fact that the pedophilic - those truly orientated in that direction (to use the language of the homosexualists) are given to wonder about their plight. If we can loosen the rules for homosexuals, divorcees, and others....what is stopping things for them? Don't tell me about burdens and crosses too heavy to bear if you have homosexual tendencies. You do not even have a fraction of the burden of the pedophilic and those with other sexual disorders far more disturbing.
I, for one, have had it. If we cannot accept the fact that all sex outside of marriage is sinful, and all sex within marriage not ordered toward the procreative is sinful, then we are no longer Christian...nor sane.
Terry, just because there are those of us who struggle with this and are sick of the cross (for the time being) doesn't mean we shouldn't hear the truth proclaimed. I think we can all be at least intellectually honest about that if not emotionally 'in line' or spiritually strong / obedient. Comments that I read from another reader of yours who has had it with people like me only serve to strengthen my repulsion for Catholic parish life. Get over it? Sure. Thanks for your understanding and show some more of that charity in truth, will ya? What I like about you, Terry, is that you don't beat people over the head w/it. For those who said they'll pray for me: thank you. I sincerely appreciate that. I have a devotion to the Holy Face and it's meditating on Christ's humanity and brokenness that's helping me right now. Everyone has a decision: to be obedient and serve, or not. I hope I can get back there ... it's all grace, and most poor suckers (like me) are starving to death.
Ever consider that others have heavier, non-celebrated crosses than you, doughboy? Growing up, a neighbor man raped my friend and his older brother, giving them alcohol and pornography in exchange for sex. He went to prison, and now goes the the parish of my youth. No one wants anything to do with him, and he is attracted to boys and minors.
A current neighbor is a level three sex offender who did time. He forcefully raped/penetrated a 9 year old boy and his little brother. He is out, and can't find work. No one wants anything to do with him. He is attracted to boys and minors.
Their crosses are far heavier than a man with mere same-sex attraction. Get over it? I didn't say that, you did. But I am tired of the whining. That I did say. We all have crosses, you should be thankful yours is what it is, for that is how God wants you to get to heaven. And its far lighter than some others.
We all have to play by the same rules. I don't hear much other than complaints and whining from the same sex attraction side, when we all have problems. I consider my own worse than a man or woman with same sex attraction. The two guys I mentioned above are far worse than all of us, and no one is throwing them a parade, writing sitcoms about them, or fighting for their constitutional rights.
Less talk. More counting of blessing. More prayer.
Oddly, it was something you posted recently (Rabbi post) that inspired me to post something that spoke up about my feelings on this subject. It was a very tentative first step for me that involved merely posting that article to Facebook (without any comment on my part). It took a lot of courage but I've been taking the lessons from our Christian brethren in the Middle East seriously and I stepped out of the shadows. Please, for the sake of those who have been quiet and for those, especially, who still are, please do not stop writing on this subject. You give a lot of courage to many.
Interestingly, though I expected to get a lot of heat from at least 3-4 different people, I didn't get a peep - not even a LIKE. The response was thunderous in its silence even amongst my Catholic Facebook friends. Somehow, I find that more disturbing than getting yelled at.
Please comment with charity and avoid ad hominem attacks. I exercise the right to delete comments I find inappropriate. If you use your real name there is a better chance your comment will stay put.
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Doesn't make me upset. Occasionally I get an outraged person on my own blog too saying I post nothing but anti gay bigotry on my site. (Not true, I post a lot of other bigotry as well --against sin and scandal.) So keep on posting, Terry. You are always charitable and on target. If you make people upset it's no doubt because their consciences are pricking them. And that's a good thing. When we teamed Engaged Encounter we challenged couples who were living together to separate until their weddings. If they didn't get upset we were more concerned than if they did. (Unless they already decided to separate for the duration.)
ReplyDeleteThanks. I'll keep posting.
DeleteThey get upset when you don't post too.
ReplyDeleteWhat?
Ya think?
DeleteTerry, there is a big difference between disagreeing and "getting upset." Gay issues have become a hot button issue because homosexuality has become completely acceptable in our culture, and of course the lifestyle is and always will be rejected by the Catholic Church as intrinsically disordered and morally unacceptable. The question is, how do we approach a society that views us as bigots and haters? Do we just say "you are a sinner" and let the chips fall where they may? I think that in concern for people's souls, we have to find a way to approach those who disagree with us in a way that does not dilute the message of the Church but at the same time includes the Gospel message of love and acceptance.
ReplyDeleteWe can disagree on this, but I don't think that is a reason to just shut down the discussion. In fact, I think that is all the more reason to discuss these issues.
I do hope you will rethink your decision on whether to post on these issues in the future. Your input is very important.
I'm much newer to blogging than you are, but I am learning that those who disagree with me (and in my case, that is most people) actually help me more than those who agree with me because it forces me to think deeper about the issues. I am learning that even if some of the comments are meant as personal digs, I have to just let that roll off of me.
This wasn't directed at you. I also really wanted to use the Kevin Spacey gif.
DeleteNo one can shut me up.
So good to known that you aren't going to be silenced. We really need the voices of those whose only agenda is the truth.
DeleteI think we have done a disservice to everyone by detaching ourselves from the fundamental truth: All sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin. Within marriage, all sexual activity which is not ordered toward procreation (whether successful or not) is a sin.
ReplyDeleteOnce we have allowed the spiritual friendship crowd to gray what is not gray at all, we place souls in jeopardy.
Not to mention the fact that the pedophilic - those truly orientated in that direction (to use the language of the homosexualists) are given to wonder about their plight. If we can loosen the rules for homosexuals, divorcees, and others....what is stopping things for them? Don't tell me about burdens and crosses too heavy to bear if you have homosexual tendencies. You do not even have a fraction of the burden of the pedophilic and those with other sexual disorders far more disturbing.
I, for one, have had it. If we cannot accept the fact that all sex outside of marriage is sinful, and all sex within marriage not ordered toward the procreative is sinful, then we are no longer Christian...nor sane.
Hi Jericho - glad to see you back.
DeleteI've kind of had it as well. But I will keep posting.
Thanks for commenting.
Terry, just because there are those of us who struggle with this and are sick of the cross (for the time being) doesn't mean we shouldn't hear the truth proclaimed. I think we can all be at least intellectually honest about that if not emotionally 'in line' or spiritually strong / obedient. Comments that I read from another reader of yours who has had it with people like me only serve to strengthen my repulsion for Catholic parish life. Get over it? Sure. Thanks for your understanding and show some more of that charity in truth, will ya? What I like about you, Terry, is that you don't beat people over the head w/it. For those who said they'll pray for me: thank you. I sincerely appreciate that. I have a devotion to the Holy Face and it's meditating on Christ's humanity and brokenness that's helping me right now. Everyone has a decision: to be obedient and serve, or not. I hope I can get back there ... it's all grace, and most poor suckers (like me) are starving to death.
ReplyDeleteDon't you love the Kevin Spacey gif though? I couldn't resist.
DeleteYou are daily in my prayers.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteEver consider that others have heavier, non-celebrated crosses than you, doughboy? Growing up, a neighbor man raped my friend and his older brother, giving them alcohol and pornography in exchange for sex. He went to prison, and now goes the the parish of my youth. No one wants anything to do with him, and he is attracted to boys and minors.
DeleteA current neighbor is a level three sex offender who did time. He forcefully raped/penetrated a 9 year old boy and his little brother. He is out, and can't find work. No one wants anything to do with him. He is attracted to boys and minors.
Their crosses are far heavier than a man with mere same-sex attraction. Get over it? I didn't say that, you did. But I am tired of the whining. That I did say. We all have crosses, you should be thankful yours is what it is, for that is how God wants you to get to heaven. And its far lighter than some others.
We all have to play by the same rules. I don't hear much other than complaints and whining from the same sex attraction side, when we all have problems. I consider my own worse than a man or woman with same sex attraction. The two guys I mentioned above are far worse than all of us, and no one is throwing them a parade, writing sitcoms about them, or fighting for their constitutional rights.
Less talk. More counting of blessing. More prayer.
Oddly, it was something you posted recently (Rabbi post) that inspired me to post something that spoke up about my feelings on this subject. It was a very tentative first step for me that involved merely posting that article to Facebook (without any comment on my part). It took a lot of courage but I've been taking the lessons from our Christian brethren in the Middle East seriously and I stepped out of the shadows. Please, for the sake of those who have been quiet and for those, especially, who still are, please do not stop writing on this subject. You give a lot of courage to many.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, though I expected to get a lot of heat from at least 3-4 different people, I didn't get a peep - not even a LIKE. The response was thunderous in its silence even amongst my Catholic Facebook friends. Somehow, I find that more disturbing than getting yelled at.