Jamie is in pain, the pain felt by so many victims of injustice.
She is in even more pain because of Francis saying that women can’t be ordained! She writes:
As a woman who has discerned a calling to the priesthood for more than 20 years, Francis’ hiding behind John Paul II’s theology and claiming that the “door is closed” on the ordination issue was profoundly painful. Hearing these words, I felt the same kind of humiliation I would have experienced if a door had literally been slammed in my face.Jamie Jamie Jamie… you think you’ve known pain?
What about my pain?
I was thrown out of seminary twice…
… before I was ordained by the author of Ordinatio sacerdotalis. - Fr. Z
Fr. Z knows the really dark side of "nice".
People should give him a break. I know who some of the people are who had a hand in his 'exile'. Many have no idea how mean 'nice' religious people can be. Talk about abuse.
Two wrongs don't make a right. He perpetuates the cycle of "nasty."
ReplyDeleteWe all do it.
DeleteTrue, true. Most of us aren't priests, though.
DeleteMother always said to take the high road.
ReplyDeleteDoes this guy have a parish or do anything other then this stuff?
ReplyDeleteI just feel sorry for Francis...the conservatives don't like him (his mere mention of the word "gay," sends many of them into a tailspin) and now hippie Lesbian Nuns hate him too...for wanting to open the door more fully for women!
He is most likely going to grab a drink from the bar cart and lock himself in the bathroom for the next flight.
You seem to be under the impression that you are surrounded here by people of the same mind as you.
DeleteThat would be the wrong impression.
Fr Z is the usual celebrant for the Traditional Latin Mass on Sunday at my parish, which is the Cathedral Parish in Madison, WI, He is also sometimes seen celebrating Novus Ordo Mass if he is asked to substitute in some necessity, he also concelebrates at ordinations and such. One of the most recently ordained priests asked him to give the homily at his first Mass, which was the most ideal exhortation to a new priest that you could imagine--he is a really wonderful homilist.
DeleteHe is a wonderful confessor as well.
DeleteMack, don't underestimate the value of his blog. When I had no place to turn to for questions, it was quite helpful. He's an oasis of tradition for readers in areas without Mass in the Extraordinary Form or who get questionable information at their own parish and a neutral source of information for those who want to send commentary up the food chain.
DeleteHe has to have permission from his own bishop to be elsewhere and from the bishop where he is for public acts. Clearly that's the case.
Thank you Elizabeth, Terry and Nan for answering me. I had no idea what his story was or if he was even a "real," priest. And Jericho, rather drinks with the Holy Father and a nice chat (you know Francis can talk about anything from faith to sports and he would be cool to talk with) then sour grapes with you!
DeleteBut before all things have a constant mutual charity among yourselves: for charity covereth a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8
Deleteservusmariaen..thank you ..I need that reminding (on a constant basis.)
DeleteJason Liske, who has the "Ascending Mt. Carmel" blog, had a few snarky/outraged pieces when he first started his blog, and since he's a good writer those posts drove some traffic. But he quickly moved past that kind of "red meat" blogging because he realized it was hampering his "spiritual ascent". So now his blog is not as edgy and titillating--and doubtless has fewer readers--but he chose the better path.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was writing my own conversion story I was very conscious of the act that my holy angels were reigning me in--telling me to pull my punches-- when I was discussing the failures of 70s-80s catholicism. A person CAN give full witness to the things of God without harming their growth in peace and charity. I think the late Frs. Thwaites, SJ & Hardon SJ were exemplars of this.
Scott, you are most correct about Frs Thwaites and Hardon SJ. They were both wonderful priests. I still love to listen to recordings of Fr Thwaites talks. They are so edifying.
DeleteLike I said, give him a break.
ReplyDeleteThe following is written without any sense of being judgemental: I'm just wondering how someone who has been asked to leave two seminaries manages to get himself ordained, as I presume both of the seminaries had valid concerns.
ReplyDeleteI ask because Cardinal Burke (hardly a liberal) once said to a group of us that he was always suspicious of what he called 'seminary hoppers'.
I suppose it sounds suspicious, but one has to understand what things were like back then.
DeleteHe wasn't hopping around. The seminary here, as well as the vocation office was really stacked against any sort of traditional spirituality or devotion. Likewise it was a rather gay friendly, heterodox friendly place. Fr. Z wasn't the only one blackballed - I know other solid men, now priests, who were rejected - one priest is a canon lawyer and heads the tribunal in another diocese.
There is nothing wrong with Fr. Z. or his priesthood. He just tends to be outspoken.
Fr. has the support of many good priests and bishops. He has had very good, solid mentors all along the way.
I agree this is a huge red flag, a la Maciel (who also talked about his pain and persecution on being kicked out of two seminaries--because he was so holy and the seminaries so corrupt and full of homosexuals, of course).
ReplyDeleteTime will tell. But wails of how much pain somebody is in due to being kicked out of two seminaries have lost their effect since the days of dear old sainted Maciel.
(Not suggesting Fr. Z is a Maciel, just that this is a tired old theme used in the past by superstar priests who turned out to be less than sainted)
Hi Ginger - I get what you are saying, but I should maybe clarify something here. Fr. Z really does not bewail the difficulties he encountered in pursuing his vocation. Any difficulty only served to strengthen his faith and commitment, I'm sure.
DeleteHis recent so-called 'wail' is most likely facetious in tone. He's not at all asking for pity or sympathy - that is not his style.
He doesn't make a habit of looking for sympathy - to be sure.
I grabbed his remark simply to try and explain in part, where the snark comes from. He can well defend himself and doesn't need me to try and do so - although he has been taking a beating lately in comboxes, and I think people should give him a break.
He is so not a Maciel and I genuinely doubt he imagines himself to be saintly. He is simply a faithful priest.
That said - I also know the situation at the seminary in his days, I know several priests and former seminarians from the time. Did you ever read "Goodbye Good Men"? Several good men got through, but it wasn't easy.
I will just say it one more time - there is nothing wrong with Fr. Z.
Terri,
ReplyDeleteMaciel had the support of not just many good priests and bishops, but the blessed JPII himself.
Look, I hope you are right about Father Z. But getting kicked out of two seminaries really is a red flag, certainly nothing to boast about, no matter what they say.
Many of us have been burned a number of times on superstar priests who claimed these sorts of things. Eyes have been opened, and Fr. Z would be wise to realize those same kinds of themes have been used by many a charlatan posing as a faithful priest.
Personally, any time somebody starts complaining about being persecuted for Christ, I keep my eyes peeled. The truly holy generally don't have the time to complain or worry about themselves.
Those are legitimate points, thanks Ginger.
Delete