Dishing Pope Benedict's 'Last Conversations'

Yes Holiness, I wrote everything you wanted me to say 

- they all think I resigned on my own.

Can I get a kitty now?

What?

Endless fodder for discussion.

Nothing wrong with that.

But first.  Did anyone notice that Fr. Z stepped into it?  In wondering if Benedict is the last Pope of the old era or first of the next?  Or was JPII the last?  My first thought was - let's get through this now - let history decide.  We can't decide these things while living in the midst of it.  Is someone looking to a more glorious past, attempting to revive it, hoping to re-establish the old traditional structures of European life  - such as courtly choir dress, galleros with tassels down to the elbows, cappa-magnas swept onto the street, and ornate heraldic crests on letterheads, door posts and vestry?  But I digress.

Fr. Z stepped into it when he pondered out loud, the Garabandal prophecy about the end of the era and the last Pope: 

“After His Holiness Paul VI, there will be only two more popes before the end of the present period (el fin de los tiempos) which is not the end of the world. The Blessed Virgin told me so, but I do not know what that means.”

Why do people do this?  Why do they keep spinning this stuff which gets embedded in 'popular' piety, feeds conspiracy theories, and actually contributes to 'faithful dissent'?  Not to mention leading to the boast of being more Catholic than the pope.

Garabandal - despite what everyone seems to say, is not approved.  Not approved.  I actually visited there on my way to Compostella.  It's a lovely place.  I never got the impression it was authentic or false, what impressed me at the time, was the poverty of the place and very few pilgrims.  I met one of the seers without knowing who she was until after my visit.   I was concerned about the veracity of the phenomena after reading the Bishop's letter posted to the parish church door, rejecting the claims, stating there was no supernatural validity for the apparitions.  It doesn't make me an expert, but I know well enough that the local ordinary, the bishop of the place has the authority to discern the authenticity of the claims.

The recognition of apparitions are not considered a requirement of faith.

Nevertheless, there have been numerous claims that saints and popes have 'believed' the events at Garabandal.  In fact I know many good priests and contemplatives who still believe in the authenticity of the apparitions.

They can do that, I suppose, but it adds nothing to the faith.  In some cases it may even 'retard' belief.  Not a few focus upon things such as 'the last pope at the end of an era' prophecy - which can lead to rejecting one and accepting another, to give credence to one and reject the other, and so on.  Likewise, spiritual life can be left in a sort of 'suspended animation' if you will - waiting for the warning and chastisement, hoping you get 'raptured' or saved in the process.  It can become an obsession and a subtle 'replacement for an authentic spiritual life' if one is not careful, leading to faulty interpretations as regards the 'signs of the times' and real life.

That said, Fr. Z is getting some notice for his speculation - and he will continue to get more as he decodes Last Conversations.  Nothing wrong with that - it's what he does.  He's also met, and spoken with the man, and so he really knows Benedict Joseph Ratzinger.

I'm just pointing out these discussions are pretty much parlour games, little more.  I'm just the footman muttering to himself about the guests ...

Second speculation on Last Conversations.

A friend sent me a very interesting article/letter from Dr. Robert Moynihan on a discussion regarding the Dark Night, as discussed by Pope Benedict in Last Conversations with Peter Seewald.  It must be a letter to subscribers, since I can't find Moynihan's article online.  It is an excellent essay on the subject of the dark night of the soul understood in the Carmelite sense of John of the Cross.  Because I can't find the text online, I include it below - edited for brevity.

The Dark Night of Emeritus Pope Benedict

The term "dark night (of the soul)" is used in Roman Catholicism for a spiritual crisis in a journey toward union with God.
St. Thérèse of Lisieux, a 19th-century French Carmelite, wrote of her own experience. Centering on doubts about the afterlife, she reportedly told her fellow nuns, "If you only knew what darkness I am plunged into." 

But St. John of the Cross, the 16th century Spanish Carmelite mystic, tells us that this "dark night" is not something to be feared or avoided, but rather a great grace and a healing experience for the soul that seeks to draw ever closer to the ultimate it may experience, that is, the soul's Beloved — God.

In his new interview-book, published on September 9 in German and Italian as Ultime Conversazioni ("Last Conversation"), German author Peter Seewald asks Emeritus Pope Benedict whether he has ever experienced a "dark night" of the soul.

And the former pontiff responds "no," adding, with humility, "Perhaps I am not holy enough to have plumbed the depths of that obscurity."

Benedict then tells Seewald that he has had difficult spiritual moments, moments when things have happened to the people around him, causing his to question how God could have permitted such a thing, moments when he has asked himself "how all this evil can be reconciled with the omnipotence and the goodness of the Lord."

So we know that Benedict has suffered from the things he has seen occur around him.

And we know he has even questioned the dispositions of God in these circumstances: How could these painful and evil events be reconciled with God's goodness?

Benedict doesn't dwell on this. His words are concise. He doesn't give examples of what he is referring to. So, in a sense, he is revealing his experience of passing through a sort of "intellectual" night of darkness, when he did not understand, try as he might, how a good God could allow such things to be.

Seewald asks him: "How do you face such problems of faith?"

Benedict replies: "I face them first of all by not abandoning the underlying certainty of the faith and remaining, one might say, immersed in it. And knowing that if I do not understand something, it is not because it is wrong but because I am too small to understand it. Sometimes it has happened that I arrived bit by bit at understanding. And it is always a gift when, unexpectedly, one sees something that one did not see before. One understands that one must be humble, that is one does not understand the words of the Scripture one must wait until the Lord discloses them to our comprehension."

The striking thing about this answer is that it gives us a clear insight into the working of Benedict's mind and soul.

We all know that he is a profound intellect, a man of deep study, much knowledge, and brilliant insight.

And yet, he is revealing to us here that he not only has had difficulty with accepting the evils of this life, but also with understanding the words of the Scriptures.

And we know more: we know that he has experienced moments of understanding as he has sought to comprehend the meaning of those events, and of those Scriptures.

He tells us that these moments have been "gifts" to him.

He tells us that he has received these "gifts" of understanding after patient waiting: "one must wait until the Lord discloses the meaning."

And Seewald, rightly, asks: "And does he disclose the meaning?"

Benedict replies: "Not always. But the fact that there exist moments in which he does shows me the grandeur (or "the greatness") of that experience."

Here we are being given an invitation to contemplate the daily experience of Benedict as he sought to understand the mind of God and the meaning of the Scriptures. Benedict is telling us that, in those moments when he could not understand why something had happened, in those moments when he could not understand the meaning of a passage of Scripture, he waited in an attitude of patience for the Lord to give him light, understanding, insight. And he tells us this happened to him more than once.

Partly for this reason, I think -- because Benedict has explained how his intellect, in moments of lack of clarity, has been enlightened by the Lord -- Seewald then asks the rather odd question: "Would you consider yourself an enlightened one?" (In Italian, the question is: "Si considerebbe un illuminato?")

"No, no," Benedict replies, and Seewald tells us that he was laughing. "No," he says, a third time.

Seewald then asks: "But doesn't the life of a Catholic-Christian also tend by definition toward illumination (or "enlightenment") as it does toward holiness?"

Benedict replies: "The concept of the 'enlightened' one (Benedict uses the word "illuminato" in Italian) has in it something of elitism. I am an entirely normal Christian. Naturally our task is to recognize the truth, which is a light. And through the power of the faith, even a simple person is enlightened ("illuminata"). Because he sees what others, even in their wisdom, do not perceive. In this sense, the faith is enlightenment ("illuminazione"). The Greeks called baptism Photismos, enlightenment ("illuminazione"), coming to the light, acquiring sight. My eyes are opened. I see a dimension which is entirely different, that I cannot perceive with the eyes of the body."

And with these words, the first chapter of this book ends. - Moynihan

"Perhaps I am not holy enough to have plumbed the depths of that obscurity."

Thanks to Ray for sending me the article.  It is indeed edifying.

My very first response is that this is very insightful. Pope Benedict is genuinely and authentically humble - very much like the saints - it seems to me he considers himself unable to judge himself - in the sense St. Paul writes about in 1 Corinthians 4:3, although in a different situation of faith. I'm not sure St. Therese was able to judge her night, nor more recently, if Mother Teresa of Calcutta was able to judge her experience. Spiritual directors and mystical theologians have that job. I think what Benedict does beautifully in this interview is demonstrate these things are common to the ordinary Christian.

 I wish I was smarter - but I think - if we ponder what is revealed in this conversation, the Holy Father is explaining what it means to live from faith. A living faith is supernatural - so he speaks of the underlying foundation of faith while he continues to puzzle as to why and how God permits evil - to the point it seems to triumph. That is the cross, that is the dark night of faith. I think that the dark night of the soul should always, in cases like this, be identified as the dark night of faith - it is not purgative for the soul as much as it is an actual participation in the passion of Christ - in the loftiest sense - and in that way it is an act of reparation.

I could be wrong.

However, I think it is more important to consider the life of faith which Pope Benedict reveals, than the novelty of this or that obscure prophecy from here or there.  Know what I mean?

Yeah, you can still drink and be holy.

A toast!

Now let's turn the bar around ad orientem!

What does the Catechism mean by "the support of disinterested friendship"?

What is disinterested friendship?

When addressing the issue of homosexual persons and the call to chastity, the Catechism states:

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. - CCC

Many people take the words of the catechism and interpret them to suit their lifestyle or practice of chastity as they themselves understand it.  In other words, disinterested can sometimes mean whatever one wants it to mean.  (This may explain why so many people do not really trust 'gay-pride Catholics'.)

Disinterested?

I've been thinking about how I would explain what disinterested means when it comes to spiritual friendship.  It seems to me disinterested may best be defined as dispassionate - without passion.  It's something monastics strive for and has a correlation to the ordinary spiritual work involved in the observance of chastity, or purity of heart.  It is obtained by vigilance.  The Christian who is called to chastity is called to vigilance.  Christ said to the disciples, "What I say to you I say to all: Watch."  Be vigilant.  Vigilance goes hand in hand with prayer, "Watch and pray that you enter not into temptation."  Prayer makes us attentive - vigilant.  Vigilance keeps custody of the heart.  (Which is why the work of organizations such as Courage is so good for persons struggling with same sex attraction, because Courage offers a support or framework as a means to sanctity.)

Attraction.

In the spiritual life an attraction might be considered the first movement towards sin, a first response as it were to temptation.  It's connected with concupiscence.  There is no sin committed when one hasn't willed or consented to the movement.  (I'm not talking about ordinary attraction, but rather sexual/erotic/passionate attraction.)   The attraction is repulsed by vigilance - as long as one does not cultivate an affection for the 'attraction' or entertain it - he remains vigilant.  However, if we follow the attraction, our passions can be aroused and we become more or less dependent or attached to the joy or pleasure the attraction stimulates.  When we allow or cultivate inordinate affection and/or disordered attraction in our heart, we are easily defeated and become encumbered by the inclination to sin which clings to us.

Vigilance opposes the very beginnings of sin.  It is obtained gradually, not by anxious, care-filled watching [Luke 17:20] but by long continued practice, prayer, the sacraments, sometimes falling and rising through frequent confession, until we know our own propensity to sin and humbly rely totally upon God's mercy.  On the other hand, when we compromise our faith and make provisions for our passions:

"Our fall is aggravated, sealed and becomes our own permanent property, a permanent pledge of eternal perdition through following our fallen will and the will of demons." - St. Ignatius Brianchaninov

Disinterested equals dispassionate.

JESUS!

Enkindle in our hearts a deep love and reverence

for your Holy Name, that filled with confidence

in its saving power, we will be courageous

in breaking with every sinful affection

and unlawful attachment. Amen

- Prayer for 4th day of Novena to the Infant Jesus

Ordinary Saints.

This is the one whom I approve: the lowly and afflicted man who trembles at my word. - Isaiah 66: 2

I often think of some of the old, solitary men I often noticed at daily Mass at a downtown church I used to go to.  They were quiet, sat off to the side, praying quietly - sometimes for very long stretches. If someone greeted them, they would nod, otherwise they kept to themselves.  They didn't exhibit any outward piety save for what is expected, genuflections and so on.  No touching statues, no pious poses, nothing 'put on'.  They minded their own business.  I never tried to inquire about them, never tried to meet them or engage them - I even tried to avoid glancing at them - so strong the impression they were engaged in prayer.  They slipped in and out of church, be it for Mass or adoration.

Many daily Mass goers are like that.  I think many older folks, male and female, live quiet, contemplative lives - unobtrusive.  They don't meddle - they don't watch who or what kind of person goes to communion.  I doubt they looked around to see who was devout and who was not, or how people were dressed.  They were not at church for that.

I noticed them.  Not a few seemed poor, not particularly well dressed - perhaps lifelong bachelors or widowers - and probably retired manual laborers.  They taught me by their fidelity, their quiet devotion, without calling attention to themselves - I admired what I now recognize as their humble dignity, integrity, guilelessness I suppose.  

It seems to me a big problem with online evangelists and their incessant self disclosures on 'their' conversion and advice on how to befriend people like themselves how to be Catholic and effective and successful and - whatever their shtick happens to be - it just seems to me their whole thing ends up being about them - 'all about me'.  I may be wrong of course.  In fact - it is really none of my business.

However, having painted and prayed with Matt Talbot these past couple of weeks I was reminded of the hidden souls I used to admire.  Matt Talbot was like those men.  He lived quietly and humbly - an ordinary, hidden life - no self promotion or self canonization ever came between him and the Lord. 

That is the secret of sanctity, I think - I hope.

“Some of those who follow Jesus do so in search of power. Perhaps they do not do so with full consciousness. A clear example of this is to be found in John and James, the sons of Zebedee who asked Jesus to seat them in places of honour, one on His right and one on His left in his Kingdom. And in the Church there are climbers, people driven by ambition! There are many of them! But if you like climbing go to the mountains and climb them: it is healthier! Do not come to Church to climb! And Jesus scolds people with this kind of ambitious attitude in the Church”. - Pope Francis

Photo: Grandpa Dobri 

Excellent advice ...

Story here.

From The Servant of God Elisabeth Leseur.

Banish everything that is not love...

Not to accept everything,

but to understand everything;

not to approve of everything,

but to forgive everything;

not to adopt everything,

but to search for the grain of truth that is contained in everything.

To reject no idea and no good intention, however awkward or feeble.

To love others as Jesus Christ loved them, including suffering and death. 

-Magnificat 

 

Paul the Simple

"They said of another hermit, that while he was undergoing temptation in his cell, he saw the demons face to face, and despised them.  The devil, seeing himself overcome, came and showed himself, saying, 'I am Christ.'  The hermit looked at him, and then shut his eyes.  The devil said, 'I am Christ, why have you shut your eyes?'  The hermit answered, I do not want to see Christ in this life, but in the next.'  The devil vanished at these words." - Sayings of the Desert Fathers

St. Paul the Simple, from Catholic Online:

A hermit and disciple of St. Anthony. Paul had long been a humble farmer in Egypt when, at the age of sixty, he discovered that his wife was unfaithful. Leaving her, he set out for the desert and went to Anthony to become a follower. Anthony at first refused him, owing to Paul’s advanced years and because he doubted Paul’s sincerity. As Paul was persistent, Anthony gave him a host of demanding and arduous tasks which Paul fulfilled with such humility, obedience, and simplicity that Anthony allowed him entry into the community. Paul was termed by Anthony the ideal monk and the so called “Pride of the Desert,” bearing with honor the title “the Simple.”

Paul's feast day is March 6 and/or March 7.

Against the desire for visions.

 

The demons wanted to tempt a hermit and said to him, 'Would you like to see Christ?' The monk answered, 'A curse be upon you and him by whom you speak.  I believe my Christ when he said, "If anyone says to you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'Lo, there,' do not believe him".  [Matt. 24:23]  They vanished at the words.

Andy Warhol... Catholic studies.

Marc Barnes posts on Andy Warhol.

Nice to know.

Andy wasn't a model Catholic, but he was a faithful Catholic - in a way.  A new book discusses how that can be.

Fact is, he was gay and Catholic, before the hairsplitting on what all of that means began to be taken seriously, and subsequently sanitized and legitimized and normalized.  Pier Vittorio Tondelli was a gay Catholic too - faithful by the time he died - before, not so much.  People, gay people who are Catholic, are still Catholic - those whose conscience has been formed correctly do not try to say a sin is not a sin.  Homosexual orientation is not a sin of course - but the behavior is.  Some people who are active homosexuals are like that - hence they stay away from the sacraments.  In doing so they do not say the behavior is not sinful - they know it is - and they know that they cannot act out and be a faithful Catholic.  And in a very strange way - they are faithful in that.  Tondelli was like that, and so was Warhol.  For all of the issues within the manufactured reality and public persona of Warhol, he remained Catholic - and celibate.  Chaste?  That's what he said.

How some gay Catholics manage to live, how some gay Catholics find reconciliation, and what lifestyle they are accused of promoting by their mere existence, may not make them models of virtue, or good examples, or saints even - but one has to acknowledge their fidelity. 

Remember Mark Shea's friend?  Perry Lorenzo?  Now Mr. Lorenzo definitely lived as a very faithful Catholic, yet most would reject the notion that he was a model to be imitated - pretty much based solely on how he identified himself.  Yet SSA people who may struggle to live chaste lives in fidelity to Catholic teaching, can be helped and encouraged by such examples - simply by knowing there have been men, not unlike themselves, who have struggled and found salvation in the Church - even when church-people did not want them there.

Everyone works out his salvation as best he can - which is why the Church provides the sacraments, especially that of penance and Eucharist, and at the end, the sacrament of anointing, once referred to as Last Rites. 

Can a Catholic privately consider the virtue of another person to be heroic?  Yes indeed.  Does the Church always recognize such heroic virtue for public cult.  No.

Photo from an old post I did on The Factory and Warhol.

UPDATE:  I go online too late in the morning I guess - better late than never however.  I discovered  Dawn Eden has a great post up in response to Marc's post on Warhol.  I wish I was as articulate as Dawn, and I wish I had said what she said in her post.  Read it:  Defining deviancy down - Andy Warhol refashioned...


NB: What is notable about Warhol is that he did not try to promote homosexuality as something good or equal to heterosexual love and marriage.  He did not try to promote sinful behavior as virtuous.  In that respect he can be called a 'proud sinner' - although sitting at the back of the church during Mass pretty much cancels out the pride aspect.