This is completely new and unprecedented.
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An important Cardinal hosts the visionaries of Mejugorje at St. Stephen's Cathedral, Vienna, Austria. The cathedral was packed to over flowing, with the faithful praying the rosary and adoring Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.
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What does this mean?
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What does this mean for the Church and the world?
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Remember, only the Pope may criticize a Cardinal (and will he do so?): "It is reminded that in the Church, when it is a question of accusations against a cardinal, the competence belongs only to the Pope; other entities can have a consultative function, always with due respect for the persons." - angelqueen
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What up?
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Links:
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Videos here: Mary TV
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Te Deum Laudemus' take on the event.
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Photo credit
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H/T Spirit Daily
"Only the Pope may criticize a Cardinal."
ReplyDeleteHmm. It seems that a few apologies are due to CARDINAL Mahoney? :-)
LOL! No kidding!
ReplyDeleteThis is schism. Even if Rome finally puts the smack down on Medj. the true believers will go right on.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that's "officially" criticize a Cardinal or criticize with any actual binding authority. Thing is, you act like a dope, people are bound to talk.
ReplyDeleteAnd what Dymphna has said is so true - the true believers will not be daunted by someone as temporal and flimsy as the Vicar of Christ.
word verification: contesta
The believers of Medjugorje will absolutley be obedient to whatever decision that the Pope makes on Medjugorje, but he hasn't done that yet, so we are free to go there as he has stated.
ReplyDeleteAnd Fatima and Lourdes had the same type of opponents that we have today regarding Medjugorje. So welcome and God bless you.
http://thereedofgod.blogspot.com/2010/09/mediatrix-of-all-graces.html
ReplyDeleteSince the birth of Jesus and by a heavenly decree all graces come through Mary
Richard Saint-Laurent expressed this notion in similar terms, saying that “God grants no good to His creatures that does not pass through the hands of the Virgin Mother.” Also the Venerable Father de Celles urged all of us to have recourse to this Treasurer of all graces, as he called her, insisting that she is the only canal through which the world and every man in particular may receive the favors they await from God.
One can clearly see that in stating that all graces come to us through Mary, all these saints and all these pious authors did not intend their words to be taken in a narrow sense. Indeed, they meant to say that we have received Jesus Christ from Mary, the source of all good. They stated in formal terms that since the birth of Jesus Christ, and by virtue of a heavenly decree, all graces from His merits were, are now and will be distributed to humanity until the end of time, through the hands and the intercession of Mary.
I hope I don't sound dumb, but I've never understood some of the Marian doctrines, especially the Mediatrix of all Graces one. I trust wholeheartedly that the Church knows what she is doing, but I just don't 'get' it sometimes. Like, where is the line drawn between hyperdoulia and latria, Marian devotion and Mariolatry?
ReplyDeleteLike, did we really get Jesus FROM Mary, or THORUGH her 'Fiat'? This seems to me to be a distinction with a difference, and a big one at that.
... Would they call me a heretic in Medugorje? :)
I believe this is a "canonical matter"; it has to do with "disciplining" a Cardinal or something like that.
ReplyDeleteFor heaven's sake, questioning this particular "aberration" is NOT a canonical question.
The local Bishop where this phenomena is supposedly taking place has made it very clear.
The local Bishop has jurisdiction; the Vatican is having an inquiry into this right now.
I don't understand Card. Shoenborn's act in this present situation; it is absolutely "out of bounds"...WTH?
Diane at "Te Laudemus" is doing a great service here; she is asking the right questions and is giving the right information.
God give us Your Grace and Light!
And, sorry, PRAISE GOD, this does not parallel Fatima and Lourdes.
Those seers were obedient to the authority of the Church...in heroic ways...this bunch at M. are doing "their own thing"...and it is documented. A scandal, if you ask me...just my opinion.
I'm not a Medjugorje follower, so I don't have a dog in this race. However, I'm wondering if part of it could be true and valid, and other parts not so much. Med seems to be different from other (approved) apparitions in that many people are involved, over a long time. Could it have started out authentic, then somehow gotten hijacked?
ReplyDeleteIt is really disappointing to see a departure from how bishops have traditionally handled unapproved private revelations from other dioceses, as well as the setting aside of collegiality.
ReplyDeleteThe breach in collegiality isn't only with the cardinal's brother bishop in Mostar, but with the entire Bishop's Conference of Bosnia & Herzegovina.
Do you see bishops or cardinals in any diocese of Bosnia & Herzegovina, or Croatia (which make up the larger, Catholic segment of the former Yugoslavia) giving the Medjugorje "seers" a platform on Church property? In the last 29 years, this has not been done.
There are certain matters of episcopal etiquette that have been tossed out the window. This, sadly, is doing nothing but causing people to side with this bishop or that bishop. Put another way, it is causing disunity among the faithful.
Thanks Diane - I could not agree more. This is a very real scandal.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but wonder if there would be so much disunity among Catholics over Medjugorje, if all bishops were in harmony with the local Ordinary in what they permit in their dioceses.
ReplyDeleteIt's one thing for them to hold hope, and privately hold the belief in the aunticity, and quite another thing for them to do something which makes another bishop look like a buffoon.
Filial reverence owed to Bishop Peric, and his brother bishops in Bosnia & Herzegovina was not increased when an archbishop of a large diocese essentially thumbs his nose at them by doing what they have never permitted.
Nice.
Diane: Just "keep on, keepin' on, girlfriend" (not wanting to sound disrespectful, here)...but for heaven's sake...?
ReplyDeleteCard. S. is just "outta bounds"...like I asked, WTH?
It's no disrespect...for goodness' sake, the credibility of Holy Mother Church, Her Cardinals, even the Holy Father is at stake here...
Jesus, Mary, Joseph, save souls!!
Are not servile fear and filial fear constructs properly applied to our Lord? Revernce belongs to God, not man, right?
ReplyDeleteMaria
There is a pretty good discussion going on at the blog of Catholic Apologist, Patrick Madrid, related to this subject.
ReplyDeletelol: I guess you don't like the question?
ReplyDeleteThe discussion at Patrick Madrid's blog is becoming bloody...
ReplyDeletewow!
Diane, we love you dear...you are a true "mulier fortis"!!
Keep it up!
Credo,
ReplyDeleteWas your question aimed at me?
If so, and if you are referring to filial reverence, I will elaborate, if that is what you are referring to.
"Filial fear" to my mind, is the kind of reverence that God wants a child to show his parents.
In the same way, we owe reverence to our bishops because they have authority over us, given to them by God.
On matters of faith and morals, and on pastoral matters when they offer instruction within proper bounds, and in alignment with Catholic teaching, we will be judged on how we respond to them (Luke 10:16).
I owe this filial reverence to my own pastor. I owe it to my archbishop. There are circumstances where I owe it to other bishops. For example, I am paying due reverence to Bishop Lennon of cleveland when I avoid going to Holy Love Ministries, which he condemned as not supernatural after the Holy See directed him to make a definitive judgment. I am not only imprudent if I were to insist upon going there, but I am not giving that other bishop the respect he deserves as ordinary of the place. Other bishops show reverence for their brother bishop by respecting the decision he made for the Church.
This is what I meant by filial reverence to Bishop Peric. I established in a prior blogpost that Bishop Peric has pastoral responsiblity for all that happens in Medjugorje, and all pertaining to it as the Church continues it's discernment.
Pilgrimages are permitted on certain conditions. One has to ask a basic question here: If systematically organized pilgrimages to Medjugorje at the diocesan or parish level are not permitted, how then can a diocese or parish justify organizing a stage event on Church property with the "seers"?
If a bishop is involved, or permits it knowing this, then he violated collegiality, and does not give due reverence to his brother bishop.
As an aside, all priests and bishops are imperfect people as all lay people are. We all suffer the same effects of original sin. However, we simply need to do as say, not as they do. (Mt 23:3) They will be judged on their shortcomings, we will be judged on how we respond to directives and guidance they have authority to give.
Diane--This is WAY over my head. I was just making the point that I thought filial and servile fear/reverence were terms understood in relationship to God and not one another. What do I know? I am no theologian.Just a social worker who loves God. I love your blog BTW!
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