When I think about the "Catholic men (MEN! grr, burp)" movement, if you can call it that, I'm always reminded of this song:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZv7xT9wNTY&feature=related
It's delightful to see so many men interested in their Church. As Michael says, "God love 'em."
He had an audience of about 500.
Terry - your comment at my blog was the best of the week. "Pastoral visit" - ROFL!!!
I'm laughing at "Hofbräuhaus" - from the image, and the use of that word, I'm imagining a bunch of drunken men, arms locked together, singing a waltz and swaying back and forth.I miss Germany ...
Oh yeah, I think I've seen this kind of presentation from Voris before. Like that one time, when he spoke at some lodge and went on about how:"No one fights like GastonDouses lights like GastonIn a wrestling match nobody bites like GastonFor there's no one as burly and brawnyAs you see I've got biceps to spareNot a bit of him's scraggly or scrawny(That's right!)And ev'ry last inch of me's covered with hair!!"... or something to that effect.
Men do go to Church, I see them there all the time.Voris reminds me of a girl I once knew that used to get dressed up like Shirley Temple and bring a basket of oatmeal and raisin cookies for us men to enjoy.I tried to marry her, but she wasn't dumb enough to marry me.*
Loved the talk. One of his best, I thought.
Yes, that "pastoral visitation" remark was rather good...
I think that Michael can relieve all his problems with the Archdiocese of Detroit by simply renaming his organization "Testosterone Central." BTW, on "The Vortex" today Michael succinctly sums up with what's wrong with the Church, after today's biology and sociology lessons, of course. I'll leave you to name, in one word, what that problem is...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAxAWArrdcY&list=UUsUgCCaaOfESPA4REUfZ33g&index=2&feature=plcpMasculinely yours, Ace
"He had an audience of about 500."They would have been there anyway. It's their monthly meeting. I would say that we, were the audience. They (the masculine manly men) were what he wanted us, to see, surrounding him.He wouldn't be my number one choice as the leader of a new movement defining masculinity, but heck, what do I know?I'm one of the causes of men not going to Mass anymore. My lapse from the faith was caused by my own will, through my own grievious faults and deeds, I came back when I decided to do my best, to live according to Church teaching, I let grace begin to work in my soul again, thank God. All the time, I housed the power to stop men going to Mass and I never realised it (Michael states that this is a 'fact'). Womankind are responsible for Michaels rebellion as a youth(and homosexuals, don't forgrt to blame them regularly too)! How convenient.This is an ill thought out campaign I fear. The Church authorities will not affirm it. I do not wish him any harm but I think he is going to cause much of the latter!!He would do better offering a ministry for the people he blames for the dilemma in the first place!! That's what Christ would do.
I fell away from the Church myself. If I was still away and came across MV as the face of God's people and His Church, or if I came across a shallow pep-rally like this one, I'd likely want no part of it. But there came a point that I wanted everything to do with the Church - I grew to love her and still do. It never depressed me that more "masculine men" weren't there, or any males at all for that matter. Frankly, aside from the well-being of their souls, who cares? That's their choice, isn't it? Why do we try to sell things other than Christ? It's the Mass, Confession, the Rosary, Adoration and prayers and wisdom of good Catholic men and women that brought me back, I believe. I seek God, not a boy's club. That's what the local fire hall is for (I want generalize about the Knights of Columbus). What is a real man, anyway? Was the weak, little, humble saint Juan Diego a real man? Surely, he must have been pleasing to God. How about St. Francis? St. Benedict?
Well said Patrick Dunn!
"All the time, I housed the power to stop men going to Mass and I never realised it (Michael states that this is a 'fact')."How can two people hear the same talk and come away with completely different understandings? Michael never said that WOMEN were to blame for the lack of men in Church. Listen more carefully, Shadowlands. It's odd that for someone with an animus against him, you keep coming back and watching his videos...And Patrick, to answer your questions, yes, all those saints you named were real men--because humility and sacrifice are the mark of true men. This would have been made completely obvious to you if you had listened to Michael's talk.
Christine,Humility and self-sacrifice are marks of true men, but I didn't hear MV mention those when I viewed the video. Perhaps in a future Vortex.One of my favorite parts was when he spoke about how the men gathered do "manly" things like pray, eat, debate - sometimes getting a little rowdy, and this in the midst of cheering and roaring - because that's what "men" do. While MV appears quite sincere and obviously takes himself seriously, some of the seemingly embarrased smirks on some of the men's faces perhaps betray their own conviction in this type of show of manliness. Overall, if this brief clip is any indication, it was a parade of presumption and facile problem-solving, in my opinion.
"...Was the weak, little, humble saint Juan Diego a real man? ..."Saint Juan Diego was a little more than 5' 11" tall.He was a sturdy man; you had to be in order to traverse the Mexican Countryside, and also not be easy prey for Satan's little darlings, the Aztecs. (Saint Juan Diego was a Mexican, not an Aztec).The demeanor of Saint Juan Diego was that of a man of simple Faith.This is an example of the sturdiness of Mexican men:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah0FpnxUXSUIn the Cristero Rebellion, the brothers of Saint Juan Diego were slapping the European and American Freemasons silly until they went crying to the Pope.Don't confuse pious, meek and humble with sissy.*
I don't care for Voris at all, but at least he is making some noise in a place where Catholic men of Church Militant should be.The men of the Church are letting their wives and daughters lead them around by the nose.At least Voris isn't skirt-burned.*
Christine said"Michael never said that WOMEN were to blame for the lack of men in Church. Listen more carefully, Shadowlands."I also listened to the video link given in John's comment. At around 5min 50sec into it, Michael says "Women run everything and men leave"Sounds pretty damning to me!You also said:"It's odd that for someone with an animus against him, you keep coming back and watching his videos..."A bit like you do with me comment wise, you mean?People who disliked Hitler kept a close eye on him and his speeches. Do you think everyone should have ignored him, apart from his devoted followers?Christine, I don't want seekers of Christ within the Catholic faith (and outside of it) assuming that he is the poster boy(man) of what it means to be a Roman Catholic in today's world. Neither do a lot of other people, some of them in hierarchical places.He reminds me of all 'one men show' type crusaders. Everyone is out of step except them and those they says are not.I do not rest easy with this man's methods, for some reason.I confess I don't take him terribly seriously either, in the sense that I don't see him or his message as a growing force in the Church. So please don't accuse me of saying he is another Hitler. I used Adolf as an analogy in defending my continued commenting on Michael's videos.
Pablo,I was using "little" in a manner similar to that of St. Therese. He cowered (initially) before the mission our Blessed Mother entrusted him with. But I do not mean to suggest he was a sissy.
Pablo - you know me - I like everyone - from Fr Z to Mark Shea to Michael Voris to Connie Francis. I'm just a lover.
Patrick,There's a link below the YouTube video of the 40-minute talk he gave to the men at the Argument of the Month Club. That's where he goes in depth about the virtues of true masculinity: humility & sacrifice, and the willingness to do spiritual combat for the faith and for one's family. They've temporarily removed it, perhaps for technical reasons or such, but I assume it will be back up soon.They gave him a standing ovation, so clearly, the men must have liked what he had to say.
Mr. Nelson,Yes I know.Most of the good Christians I have known in my life have that trait.Bugs the heck out of me.*
Shadowlands, Bingo!In the brotherhood, Ace
And then there is today’s word:“But as time went by, a cult of the feminine emerged in prayer and liturgy and meditation, a softer way of expressing and experiencing the faith began to seize hold and the aggressive and combative aspects of masculinity began to be overrun."“It is extremely difficult for the healthy male psyche to process a man’s love for Christ as being the feminine bride of Christ. When men love in a way that arises out of a shared suffering and combat...this how they love, as soldiers and comrades. This is where the bonds of love are found between men...their natural combativeness emerges.”“But without the elements of fight, combat, sacrifice and the conquest present explicitly in the faith, with that lacking, men intuitively disincline toward religion. If men are presented with the faith as just a community of the feminine, they will find nothing attractive about it...this is why the Holy Catholic Church has so much trouble attracting men these days."I could go on, he does. Better yet, watch it all ye manly men!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiXLQBcmDc&list=UUsUgCCaaOfESPA4REUfZ33g&index=2&feature=plcp
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I think men have a lot to learn from women, particularly the element of receptivity that seems to be so intrinsic and natural to femininity. Men need to listen to God more, to receive Him, to wait on Him, to be at His disposal. Men and women - every Christian - must do this, no? It's one of the things that so compelling about the monastic life and the notion of "listening" which St. Benedict insists upon. Men should pay more attention to the spirituality of the Blessed Mother, if you will, and St. Joseph, who himself hung his life on God's personal revelation to him. Men can be busy-bodies and ego-maniacs, mere pragmatists that stifle the Spirit at every turn. The crises that we face and have been facing in the Church recently to seem fundamentally to be a failure in discipleship and discernment, in purity of heart and in total dependency on the lead of God's Spirit. Men, in particular, have given into a distorted image of masculinity that has been afraid to face the consequences of failure and weakness, trying instead to seemingly salvage the reputation of the Church, to save face, though an underlying motivation is also our inability as men to face the shame of our own betrayal and confusion.
"...I think men have a lot to learn from women..."I had a reply to your remark, but canned it.I did not want to make you cry.*
Thanks, Pablo. I think machismo is an illusion anyway.*
"...I think machismo is an illusion anyway..."The Freemasons got a full dose of Machismo when they tried to crush Holy Mother Church in Mexico:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS3maEeRGyc&feature=relatedand from her children:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmpAS-qA8ms(The macho man leading the celebration of Mexico's Heroic Children is Mexico's Roman Catholic President that goes to daily Mass, and invokes the help of the Virgin Mary to rid Mexico of it's sins).Here is a macho man commemorating the death of his wife from childbirth:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTPVeup5UFkMachismo. A God given virtue.*
Newsflash for Christine:Some of us are faithful Catholics trying to live according to the teachings of the Church and we do not like or agree with Michael Voris. In fact, some of us find him quite damaging to the Faith.Such views do not make us defective or less-than-Catholic.
Thanks for the newsflash, Charlotte, but nowhere have I ever said anyone who disagrees with Michael is less than Catholic. Nor do I think that.
Terry just posts about MV for the comments. Now, I'm off to finish my post about wearing pants to mass.
Please comment with charity and avoid ad hominem attacks. I exercise the right to delete comments I find inappropriate. If you use your real name there is a better chance your comment will stay put.