Thursday, March 03, 2011

Bishop of Rochester says gay seminarians are just fine with him...

Bishop Matthew Clark of Rochester:
There was, as you know, a lot of attention given to that by the Holy See over the years, and one of their statements left the impression that under no circumstances could a person of gay orientation be ordained a priest. And that's not so.
If a person's sense of himself as a gay individual inevitably leads him to campaign against the Church's formal teachings or live a lifestyle that is upsetting to the community or scandalous, such a person would not be an apt candidate for the priesthood. But if a person understands that and lives a lifestyle that is compatible with what we ask of all of our priests, then I'm happy to receive them.
And then, and then....
“The fundamental concern of formation for a life of celibate chastity is for sexual maturity, not sexual orientation,” he said at the time. “Good seminary formation needs to provide an environment in which both heterosexual and homosexual candidates can grow to commit themselves wholeheartedly, even joyfully, to chaste and faithful celibacy.” - Source
It's always worked out so well in the past.
Editor's Note:  I removed the video of the drunk priest.  My apologies - it was a huge error in judgement.  I actually thought it was funny - which will most likely scandalize my readers even more.  It wasn't my intention to make fun of the priest but rather to use it as a commentary on Bishop Clark's defense of ordaining gay men.  I made a mistake in doing so, my sincere apologies.
Homosexuals have always been part of the clergy.  According to some, the post Vatican II Church has been over-run with them.  Perhaps there are more today due to sexual liberalism, although it is more likely because homosexuality has become acceptable.  But homosexual priests were around in the 'old' Church as well.  One priest noted recently that it is the homosexuals who make fun of traditional liturgies and vestments, which struck me as the 'pot calling the kettle black' - because the trads have their share of gay priests too - just like the Byzantines and High Church Anglicans (some of whom even get married to women).  So who is zooming who?
Anyone who knows gay priests and bishops, abbots and rectors, most likely already know all of this:  Bishop Clark's attitude/policy has been pretty much SOP in the Catholic Church stateside.  There are always a few exceptions of course - but apparently relatively few.  Even some very trad-loving Archbishops silently agree with Clark and continue to give a free pass to ssa individuals to Holy Orders - albeit on a case by case basis.

H/T Pewsitters


  1. Just saying, Rochester, Buffalo and Albany are three of the worst dioceses in the United States.

    Just saying.

    I don't know why, but that's my opinion and I have studied it a bit.

  2. Ray the article I linked to concluded with this statistic:

    A recent Catholic World Report article found that in 2008, the Diocese of Rochester ranked 175th out of the 176 Latin Rite US dioceses in its ratio of seminarians to Catholics.

  3. I'm gonna check out that article. Thanks, Terry.

  4. Mixed bag of emotions about this video. I question whether I would have posted it out of fear of perpetuating an unfair stereotype (like that hasn't happened already) on good standing clergy (something I know you would never do, so no need to point that out). Anti-Catholics will undoubtedly make this guy a poster-child for sometime to come.

    On the other hand, I know that one of the points that you're trying to make is the apparent incongruity between Catholic ordination and a homosexual orientation. I've voiced my opinion about this subject matter in the past. I'm not so much concerned about gay priests in the church as I am about the lack of sound priests with meaningful vocations. Or, perhaps, my concern (or anger) should be about (or should also include) unfit priests garnering all the media attention.

    Don't know what else to say. This dolt scandalized himself and the laity: SHAME on him. Oh, and are you assuming he's gay because of the drunken drivel that came from this inebriated stupor, or because he has in fact admitted to being gay? While the liquor might have revealed certain things that sobriety might have kept in the closet, there is still the possibility--however slight--that the explicit language was born entirely from his mind on firewater.

  5. Terry

    That Catholic World Report article is fabulous. I'm amazed that I have not seen it commented on all over the internet before now. It was published last October. It's dynamite!!!

    I've spent a couple of hours excerpting the best parts and will post/distribute it tomorrow morning.

    Thanks for that. I'm going to have to look at their stuff more often.

  6. "I'm not so much concerned about gay priests in the church as I am about the lack of sound priests with meaningful vocations."
    Tom, amen to that!
    Stuff like this is just so sad. There's the sexual issues; and alcoholism is a whole other can of worms.

  7. michael r.7:11 AM

    Agree with Tom's comments. The video is scandalous. Google "drunken priest" and you will see that it is on many anti-Catholic sites; more added every hour.

  8. Anonymous10:04 AM

    Terry -

    I did not see the video before you removed it, but I think I know who it was - a Byzantine priest from a neighboring parish here in Akron.

    I went to a funeral there a few months ago, and Fr. K struck me as a kind, respectable and devout priest. Probably much like many of us who read your blog, and you as well, my friend.

    I thank you for being honorable and removing the video. I am sick at heart about this incident, and I don't understand how it happened, but I think I know who is behind it. We all need to pray hard for all our priests, especially the St. Michael prayer. All of us are vulnerable to attacks from the devil, and it's nothing to exult at when one of us falls.

    Susan from Akron

  9. Susan - thanks much - you are very kind.

    With all due respect, I'm not sure all of these falls and lapses we witness are of supernatural origin.

  10. We all need to pray hard for all our priests, especially the St. Michael prayer. All of us are vulnerable to attacks from the devil, and it's nothing to exult at when one of us falls.

    Susan from Akron

    In the Dark Moments of the Soul, many Priests are lonely, and some use alcohol to crutch the weight of their sorrows from going to the place of Death, which is Sin, to rescue souls.

    As Miss Susan says, we need to pray St. Michael’s help, and use ejaculations like “My Jesus Mercy on your Priests” “St. Michael, defend the Priests this day”

    The punishment for homosexual Priests is very harsh. After the Second Vatican Council it got more or less set aside.

    I have been to the SSPX Seminary in America, and attended several classes there, at random.

    I have traveled day and night with SSPX Priests and one of its Bishops. Over a period of years.

    Homosexuality or even cracking homo jokes is not tolerated.

    Their Priests are manly men, and so are the boys that grow up in the Society schools and Chapels.

    It is true that the Mass makes the man.

    I am not a member of the SSPX.

    I am a Cristero, and while we admire the SSPX, we consider them Lefebvristas; they were established by Archbishop Lefebvre.

    Many criticize the SSPX, but they are the anchor in the storm of heretical seas.

    When we condemn homosexuality in the Church, we should also point to how are we to live without it, who is accomplishing that?


    Remember our fallen brother in your prayers:

    'I only want a place at the feet of Jesus. I want my life, my character, my actions to speak for me and say that I am a follower of Jesus Christ'

    Shahbaz Bhatti, 9 September 1968 - 2 March 2011 Pakisatni Martyr


  11. To believe there are no gay priests in the SSPX? Yeah, right.

    Listen, I'm not saying a "manly man" (btw, what the heck does that mean?) can't agree to or enjoy all the lace and frills and smells and bells and fussy details of the Latin liturgy. Of course he can and many, many do.

    But I'm telling you right now there are men in the SSPX and other Latin mass ordinates who DO really, really like that stuff and ARE homosexual. Besides, it's not like the SSPX gets a pass on humanity, does it? (Or does it? They'd like to think so, I believe.)

    I'm no fan of the homosexual clergy - not at all - even while I will allow that there are likely some holy, well-meaning and committed priests who have a homosexual orientation. But to think that there are no gay priests in the SSPX, simply because they claim to be on the up and up and adhere to rigidity and uber-obedience as their standard? Nope, not buying it.

    In fact, I think the perfect place for someone who can't handle their homosexuality to hide is a place just like the SSPX. Just like a lot of lazy, lax-asses do well in the military, where someone is telling them what to do, how to do it, and when to do it all the time.

  12. I still can't believe that they let +Hubbard off the hook after that priest killed himself after accusing the Bishop of harboring a homosexual subculture in the Diocese and participating it himself.

    The priest was foolish enough to trust Cardinal O'Connor, who hung him out to dry...

    Careful who you trust.

  13. Tancred - has anyone documented all of these things in one place, like a book? Likewise - has anyone locally ever gathered all the data on the homosexual subculture in STP/MPLS? Someone must have done some extensive research and it would seem important to have it documented. I know some older priests who would have a wealth of info (Fr. W), but I wonder if they have kept a record?

  14. Randy Engel, "Sin of Sodomy" on the national level is the only one I know of, but I know there are people out there who have extensive dossiers on people like Fathers Kevin McDonough, Ogara, Tegeder, Tibesar, etc...etc...etc...

    When one priest recently said that there was no homosexual subculture in the Archdiocese I laughed. It's actually more of a super-culture.


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