Tuesday, March 16, 2010
My apologies.
Once again, what about the children?
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I need to apologize for making assumptions about the lives and the intentions of the lesbian mothers of the children who were told they cannot re-enroll their natural children at Sacred Heart School in Boulder, Colorado next year. The women gave their first media interview to National Catholic Reporter's editor, Thomas Fox and I find the situation more disturbing than originally reported. I'm not aiming to continue taking sides in this situation, I'm simply apologizing for the fact I am guilty of rash judgement in the matter. Originally I had accommodated points of view from a local lesbian couple, one of whom authored a book, and I projected their more public opinions regarding Catholic teaching on sexuality onto the Boulder couple's situation. As most everyone else who jumped on this band wagon last week, I never heard or knew anything about the Boulder couple's personal life or viewpoint. Today I do. Thus far, so it seems to me, the women had been acting in relative good faith. Read some of the excerpts from the interview with NCR.
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“They asked if we would raise our children in the Catholic faith and we said we would and we have really tried to live up to that commitment,” Martha said.
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“People have suggested that we put our children in the school to make a political point or that we are fighting this battle and making our children political footballs. This is not the case,” Martha insisted. “You are the first person we have talked to. We haven’t spoken to any of the reporters who have wanted to speak with us. We value our privacy.”
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As for Sacred Heart, the women say it has been good place for their children’s education. They say they appreciate the moral foundation the teachers have provided. They say they support the character of Catholic education. They say it is very important to them that their children be provided with religious education. “We want our kids to learn about religion. We feel religion is really important. And they love it. They love God. They love their school. They love their friends. They love their teachers,” Mary said.
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Mary and Martha each gave birth to one of the children. Legally each has joint custody of both children. The women are not legally married. They have lived in Colorado for nearly a decade and Colorado does not allow gay marriages.
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Each of the children was baptized by local priests, one who is in a neighboring parish and another who has been reassigned outside the area. The baptisms followed by months the publication of a 2006 statement issued by the U.S. bishops offering guidelines to ministers and parents of gay and lesbian children. The outlines suggest baptism for children of gays and lesbians, the women say, as long as there is a reasonable assumption that the children will be raised as Catholics.***
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“They asked if we would raise our children in the Catholic faith and we said we would and we have really tried to live up to that commitment,” Martha said. “We take them to church every week. We switched to the Sacred Hear parish when our kids starting going to the school. We signed up and our money goes into the basket every week. Our kids go to Sunday school. We are making the effort.”
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Part of the disappointment for the women is that they feel the Catholic church is now not fulfilling its part of the promise to provide all the support it can in the raising of the children as Catholics. - Children denied Catholic schooling.
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I'm very sorry.
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Art: Virgen de los Desamparados - Our Lady of the Abandoned Ones. In the beginning the title of the miraculous image pertained specifically to the abandoned children of Valencia, Spain.
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*** * The Church does not support so-called same-sex "marriages" or any semblance thereof, including civil unions that give the appearance of a marriage. Church ministers may not bless such unions or promote them in any way, directly or indirectly.
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* Similarly, the Church does not support the adoption of children by homosexual couples since homosexual unions are contrary to the divine plan. For this reason, Baptism of children adopted by such couples presents a pastoral concern. Nevertheless, the Church does not refuse the Sacrament of Baptism to these children, but there must be a well founded hope that the children will be brought up in the Catholic religion. - USCCB
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"The women, members of the Sacred Heart parish, describe themselves practicing Catholics eager to raise their children in the faith of their parents and grandparents"
ReplyDeleteI am sorry. I do not get it. How do you describe yourself as to eager to raise children in the faith as a practicing homosexual? How does that work, exactly. Kyrie Eleison.
Thanks for the update, Terry.
ReplyDeleteMaria, there are many sins (not all of which are sexual) which might be described as habitual. This doesn't make them not sins, but gives one an idea why a person may not have the strength or will to get beyond them. People may very well want the faith for their children, even knowing that their own witness is flawed.
Sorry, I cannot agree with you Terry. The priest/archdiocese has stated that it is a matter of confusion for these kids if the school teaches against homosexuality and they are living under the roof of their obviously committed (if not legally married) gay parents.
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of places these kids can "love" God and "love religion" where the lifestlye of the parents are accepted. I, for one, do not want my kid to see these children picked up by 2 mommies. I don't want my child to see it, nor have to explain it.
Charlotte - I haven't taken sides here - I for one actually accept the ruling by the Archbishop. I'm only apologizing for my own personal rash judgement in the matter as I claimed to know the motivation behind the couple's choices when I first opined on the story. If you disagree with my confession of personal arrogance and rash judgement, that is okay.
ReplyDelete.
However, with news of the singular interview they granted, it seems to me they also accept what the Archbishop and the pastor of Sacred Heart have determined.
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That said, I think those of us who are not personally informed of the situation need to take people at their word and especially in this case assume these women were acting in good faith and trying to abide by the committment they made at the children's baptism - that is, to raise the children Catholic. I checked that policy out and linked to the USSCB for text source:
"Similarly, the Church does not support the adoption of children by homosexual couples since homosexual unions are contrary to the divine plan. For this reason, Baptism of children adopted by such couples presents a pastoral concern. Nevertheless, the Church does not refuse the Sacrament of Baptism to these children, but there must be a well founded hope that the children will be brought up in the Catholic religion." - USCCB
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I have to believe these issues were indeed discussed upon enrollment of the first child, as they say, and no problem was forseen. Unfortunately many people are suggesting they are being disingenuous in their explanation, which makes the situation even more unfortunate.
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At this point, it appears the women will remove the children from school and quietly move on with their lives. In the interview they said they do not want to make trouble for the Church.
Thanks for the update Terry...it does seem like the women are making every effort to raise their children as practicing Catholics...in fact them seem to be doing more than many parishioners I know...
ReplyDeleteAnd since the children have baptized as Catholics that puts a whole new spin on things..
The reasons for not readmiting these children to school get lamer and lamer..
And Charlotte--exactly WHERE do you suggest these Catholic children get their education, if not in a Catholic setting?? And if you're paranoid about having to explain to your kids about other kids parents--well there's ALL kinds of family situations nowadays...parents, step parents, single parents (men and women), kid being raised by aunts, uncles, grandparents, foster parents, adoptive parents, mixed race couples,and even being picked up at school by the nanny or the neighbor..kids are very understanding of such situations..it's us as the adults that are freaked out about it and need to set the example of loving our neighbor as we love ourselves..
Peace.. Sara
Terry, do you know gay people and lesbians in particular very well? This whole thing is a set up to make the Church look mean to their kids. Street smarts tells me that you are falling for the liberal news spin cycle on this.If you believe that story there's a bridge in Brooklyn I wanna sell ya.
ReplyDeleteSara,
ReplyDeleteI don't care how f'd up and sinful the single/heterosexual parents of the other kids are - at least there is the visual pretense that god-ordained man/woman heterosexual parental units are at play. Or heterosexual grandparents, etc.
I cannot claim that with 2 mommies attending the Christmas pageant. If some kid's heterosexual parents are divorced and they are attending the pageant but are seated separately, it is still a heterosexual pairing of sorts. There is still the age old "story" of a man and a woman coming together to create a life. You cannot, no way, no how, rationalize that with 2 lesbian parents.
I don't care to rationalize how these Catholic kids are to get a Catholic education, because I think the choice to even put them in a Catholic school is at odds with what they will be learning at home, no matter how "benign" it may be.
Terry,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the clarification. I just hope that what these parents said in the interview is the truth.
*well founded hope*. Is the well founded hope here that the two women will refrain from active homosexuality? I am not at all clear what that well founded hope is. I suspect that neither Fr. Breslin nor Bishop Chaput are convinced of the same. Terry--don't actions still speak louder than words? I can tell you I side with life all I want. If I go to work every day as an abortionist, what meaning would my words have?
ReplyDelete3 Puddy Tats: I can only assume that Fr. Breslin and Chaput, as shepards of their flock,have not made the decision that they have made without firm foundation. The children have been offered CCD. There is more at stake here, than simply, this child, at this parochial school. There are other children and other families who have not chosen homosexuality as a "lifestyle", who have enrolled their children in a Catholic school for the purpose of the formation of their childrens' consciences. How does the school do that while simulataneously disregarding a sin that "cries out to God for vengance"?
The Church,as a whole, needs to take a stand. They already have in DC w/ spousal benefits. They know what is coming and it is a tsumani of sin that seeks to be legitimized by society and codified in law. If the Church fails in its mission to stand against this, then children, families and the Church, in effect, acquiesces to the culture. The Church would, in effect, be saying:
we do not subscribe to our own teachings. I do not know how the Church does that. It is false charity to pretend that homosexualtiy is non-sinful. The focus should be on the two "mommies" and homosexuality and where their choice has led them ; not the *victimization of the child by the Church*. Christ had many hard sayings. His love is wholly unsentimental, as is Truth.It is indeed a narrow gate--and few indeed who enter--as the way is hard.
Sorry for what, Terry? You did not judge rashly at all. These women say they want to raise their children in the Faith....then let them split apart. Will they try to at least live a chaste life and promise NOT to teach their children that they have "two mommies" or try to present the gay lifestyle as something valid? True repentance makes acts of reparation.
ReplyDeleteIf they did those things, there would be no problem. They'd simply be two single moms raising their children on their own. And the parish would have no problem having them at their school.
The problem is, they are not doing that. They are a great cause of scandal by their lifestyle, what ever their words say. Words are cheap, remember.
The scandal their lives give as they are living them now, is dangerous to their own children and to those in the school. And you know what Jesus said about people who scandalize the children.
Millstone-wheat crackers, anyone?
Sorry, I don't agree that heterosexual sin is somehow "better quality"; not to say that any of it is good.
ReplyDeleteTerry - you are a good man.
ReplyDeleteAs to the interview - my HADAR goes off seeing that the National Catholic Reporter interviewed them. The NCR is not exactly a defender of the Truth, nor a fan of Archbp Chaput. It smells a bit fishy to me, but at this point, as Terry said, since I'm not intimately involved, I have to take them at their word, and leave the rest up to God.
And pray for their conversion and their children,
Today begins the monthly novena to the Infant Jesus and my prayer is for these children, the conversion of the parents, and for all children in situations where Catholic teaching is either not observed or denied them, as well as all children who suffer any form of abuse, exploitation, afluence, poverty, war, sickness, crime, etc.
ReplyDelete+JMJ+
ReplyDeleteI didn't know it at the time, but my Confirmation godmother was in a committed relationship with another woman. (They were together for over ten years, but it didn't last . . . not that that is pertinent right now.)
She would tell me stories about her childhood, particularly her wish to be a nun and her family's traditional devotions. She remained very devoted to the Sto. Nino her entire life, and made pilgrimages to Nuestra Senora de la Naval every time she planned an international trip. (These are only what I remember!) It was she who saw her work cut out for her in the crappy catechetical job my school was doing, and she prepared me for Confirmation herself. (Previously, she had prepared me for first Confession and first Holy Communion.)
Anyway, I'm not excusing this couple's obvious failure to make a connection between Catholic teaching about sexuality and their own lifestyles. But I think there's a difference between willful disobedience and invincible ignorance.
(Sigh! I didn't really say anything, did I, Terry? Sorry . . .)
Terry: First of all, you have no reason to apologize. I agree with Larry that you are a good man an always have the best of intentions.I also think Larry is right. There is more here than meets the eye. Remember that Chaput has taken bold action for a reason. I am certain there are facts to which we have no access.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right that we should pray for these children and the conversion of their parents , as Fr. Breslin has suggested; however, I would also suggest that we pray for the other children and families that must now contend with the scandal that has been created as a result of this homosexual couple. Let us also pray for Fr. Breslin and Archbishop Chaput. They are, and will no doubt continue to be, persecuted for the Faith. Let us pray that enemies of the Church who seek to destroy the Church, including homosexual activists from within the Church , will meet defeat.
Read more: Danaher: Tolerance goes both ways, Boulder - Boulder Daily Camera http://www.dailycamera.com/opinion-columnists/ci_14665405#ixzz0iMrQYBKV
ReplyDelete"Denver archbishop Charles Chaput writes in the March 10 issue of the Denver Catholic Register, "These students are always welcome so long as their parents support the Catholic mission of the school and do not offer a serious counter-witness to that mission in their actions." As Christians, we are called to be a witness to our faith. And if we engage in a lifestyle that, publicly, runs counter to our faith, or as Chaput stated, is a counter-witness, then it serves as a vocal rejection of the faith. And the church has every right to find such behavior intolerable...
To be sure some do hate gays, even some so-called Christians. But that certainly is not the position of the church. The church recognizes that we are all sinners, and that we are all loved by God. The church simply expects us to resolve to amend our lives.
Some people will not be satisfied until the church is either run out of business, is silenced or abandons all principle. We may never all agree but hopefully we can be tolerant of the church`s position and respect their dedication to the faith".
AMEN.
Scary comments here. What does anyone know of what goes on in the bedroom of this couple? It is two women living in the same house with two children, right? No big deal. There have always been such irregular living arrangements.
ReplyDeleteIf the two are presenting themselves at Mass every Sunday wrapped up in rainbow flags, then you might have some kind of argument -- but we don't know that, do we? Shame on all of us.
Michael--they self-identify as homosexual.
ReplyDeleteMichael R--Yes indeed..the scary comments thoroughout the blogosphere definitely causes me concern..having grown up in California I have many homosexual friends, from school and college, and probably 95 percent are kind decent wonderful people--and that unless you REALLY got to know them would never know that they were homosexual..I even lived in one ladies' house as a housekeeper/pool girl for a year while I was in college. Never once did she proposition me or say anything inappropriate. They are not the Devil Incarnate that many folks are painting them to be...
ReplyDeleteThis couple in question and their children sound delightful..I would enjoy very much to welcome them into my home for a cookout or Thanksgiving dinner..
Peace.. Sara
The church recognizes that we are all sinners, and that we are all loved by God. The church simply expects us to resolve to amend our lives.
ReplyDeleteMaria, a lot of Catholics self-identify as homosexual. That doesn't mean a whole lot, as it says nothing about the state of chastity that one is able to master. It simply states the obvious, that one is more attracted to those of the same sex, than the opposite. It would be dishonest to identify as heterosexual if you are same-sex attracted.
ReplyDelete(Terry, sorry for the anonymous comment, I am one of your regular readers, I promise.)
ReplyDeleteMichael - dishonest? What about people who are attracted to both sexes as I once was? What about people like me (and many silent others who refuse to come public for fear of homosexual bigotry) who have changed from homosexual to heterosexual?
How have you crucified Christ this day?
ReplyDeleteIf you are in a state of grace, it is only because God has placed you there; if you are not, pray that He put you there.
Mortal sin is something we should avoid. However, when we become the sin, the Holy Angels cry for revenge.
Lesbians and homos need to stop mocking God, pretending to have the 'right' intentions.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, to quote my sainted Madre.
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"Homos?"
ReplyDeleteAnonymous -- Yes, it is dishonest for one who is homosexual to identify as heterosexual. Ask any vocation director. Think about that. Yes, there are some people who are bi-sexual, but generally one falls on either end of the spectrum, not exactly in the middle. If that is how one is wired, then I guess you can identify yourself any way you like, hetero, homo, or bi. Again, what difference does any of this make? It is chastity that the Church teaches, period. It may be harder for some to master than others, but we cannot censure others or pass judgement on them, or presume anything because of living arrangements.
ReplyDeleteSTATEMENT:
ReplyDeleteThe Archdiocese of Denver on Catholic School Admissions Policy--
For the purposes of discussion I think it helpful to review this part of the statement:
“No person shall be admitted as a student in any Catholic school unless that person and his/her parent(s) subscribe to the school’s philosophy and agree to abide by the educational policies and regulations of the school and Archdiocese.”
PARENTS LIVING IN OPEN DISCORD WITH CATHOLIC TEACHING IN AREAS OF FAITH AND MORALS UNFORTUNATELY CHOOSE *BY THEIR ACTTIONS* to disqualify their children from enrollment. To allow children in these circumstances to continue in our school would be a cause of confusion for the student in that what they are being taught in school conflicts with what they experience in the home.
We communicated the policy to the couple at Sacred Heart of Jesus Catholic School as soon as we realized the situation. We discussed the reasons with them and have sought to respond in a way that does not abruptly displace the student but at the same time respects the integrity of the Catholic school’s philosophy.
The argument that these women, who identify themselves as a "homosexual couple", are something other than precisely this, seems disingenuous. Are we to assume that they are living as "sisters"? I think not. This argument is ridiculous.
"To allow children in these circumstances to continue in our school would be a cause of confusion for the student in that what they are being taught in school conflicts with what they experience in the home."
ReplyDeleteThen I would asume that this same statement applies to Muslim, Jewish, Protestant, and atheist students attending this school, as well as the fallen-away Catholics who haven't attend Mass in years (or the EC Catholics)..these students aren't experiencing a good Catholic home environment..
Sara
"...One more recommendation based on St. Peter’s injunction. Be strong in your faith. This is not a pious cliché. It means that we exercise our faith, courageously undertaking what we believe God wants us to do and not be afraid of the consequences. The faith we need is the faith of living martyrs in our day. We are to be witnesses of the power of Christ as a divine exorcist and never allow ourselves to doubt that God’s grace in our lives is more powerful than all the demons of hell.
ReplyDeletePray daily to St. Michael the Archangel. He was the first leader of those who led the fallen spirits into their eternal damnation. St. Michael is our chief commander in dealing with the strategy of the master of evil and the prince of this world. Christ assured us He has overcome the world, which means that we have received from Christ to do the same in our demonically plagued society at the close of the twentieth century.
Mary, Queen of martyrs, obtain for us from your Son the wisdom and the power of successfully resisting the machinations of the devil in our lives. Your divine Son told us He has overcome the world and the prince of this world by His life and death on the Cross. Obtain for us the light we need to recognize the instigation of the evil one and the strength to witness to our faith in Christ, the Conqueror of evil until we enter the company of the angels who won their battle against the spirits of evil at the beginning of time. Amen".
John Hardon SJ
Michael - I wasn't defedning homosexuals saying they are heteros. Not at all. I was simply asking about people who are bisexual or who have chanaged. That's all.
ReplyDelete