Thursday, December 31, 2009

Cardinal Schönborn in Medjugorje


It is supposed to be a private visit - but it sure makes me wonder.  I would love to believe the apparitions are true - I would love to believe.  I watched a video of Jakov in his annual apparition - I would so love to believe. 
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Alas, I must live in solitude and silence and darkness.  God have mercy upon me a sinner.
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I await the decision of the Church.
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Link:
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Cardinal Schönborn speaks in Medjugorje

15 comments:

  1. Then believe! Many others smarter and more holy than you or me have studied Medjugorje and have been graced with the faith to believe. There is much to gain by having faith in the graces God provides us. May God grant His graces to you.

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  2. Terry, I was undecided for 19 years, and then I visited Medjugorje, still uncertain. Four days into the pilgrimage I believed. Never doubted since.

    Don’t worry about the “private” aspect of the cardinal’s visit. Even the local bishop finds it difficult to remain “private” about his personal views on Medjugorje.

    There is more to the cardinal’s visit that meets the eye. This remains “private” for the time being.

    The apparitions will not be endorsed by the Holy See until they are over. That could be many years ahead. But the question shrine status is worthy of consideration. Medjugorje meets the standards required by canon law. It’s just the the local bishop and the bishop’s conference have missed the boat on this one. Had they taken the opportunity, the Holy See would never have stepped in. Now there is only one option left and that is International Shrine status, and only the Holy See can grant that.

    Hence the separation of things liturgical from the apparitions and visionaries.

    There was no mention made in the cardinal’s talk yesterday of apparitions and visionaries, just a good solid teaching on the mercy of God. Makes sense.

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  3. While watching the video I felt unsettled.

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  4. I've been 5 times I tend to disbelieve now but the impact of the place on our whole wider family has been amzing..so many practicing their faith with fervour..

    Happy New Year Terry & thanks for your encouragement I know you can tell when I'm struggling & just a line helps so much. You have a heart of gold..I fink mine's of steel!!

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  5. Mega-forgery. Not for me.

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  6. Terry, why would you Not believe? I disbelieve in some revelations but I have a reason to. You seem to be not able to believe but don't know why. Just pray for the Grace to believe.

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  7. Martha ran to meet Jesus, Mary held back.

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  8. Terry: Lies by the "seers", calumny of the local bishops (living and deceased) and the despicable behavior of the "seers", including disobedience to the bishop, lead me to one conclusion: forgery.
    The documented evidence speaks for itself.
    I don't care if Cardinal Shoenborn believes it; I have had great respect for him in the past. But I must disagree with his "imprimatur", if in fact, that is what it is.

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  9. According to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church the local bishop has the responsibility and makes the "call" (and is given grace from the Holy Spirit for this) for his diocese, not a visiting priest. The Austrian cardinal has no say in this situation. It's all rather simple. Read the local bishop. Refuse to listen to words from anyone other than him. Jesus knows how easily the flock is led astray, that's why He protects us, most lovingly, in our bishops. Remain humble and do not form personal opinions on such matters. Personal opinions divide the flock and cause dissension on things that are essentially truly not important--not doctrinal, but are about "mystics" and "seers." The devil is on the prowl and once you set yourself up as an authority, you are in danger.
    This isn't for you, Terry, you know all this, but for little souls who might be confused and might waste their time looking for God when He is found, most humble (who can comprehend such humility?), in every tabernacle in every Roman Catholic Church, waiting for us, with no fan fare or drama.

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  10. Ditto what Fr Nazareth and SF said.

    I think Cardinal Schonborn is causing great scandal. Shame on him. I hope the Pope makes a clarification, and soon, because the Medjugor-atti are going to use this as proof of "canonization" of the whole damned phenomenon.

    God help us all to discern. Matt 24:24"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.:

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  11. Not to worry about me - Credo.

    The fervor and devotion and good works of many of the devotees, as well as that tear on Jakov's cheek was very humbling for me.

    And yes - the fact that I said the Cardinal's visit 'makes me wonder' means that others will interpret his visit as official approval, and simple souls may become confused.

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  12. It seems that many souls have already become confused. Listen to Mary, who will bring you closer to Jesus, not to "the Gospa" who will bring you closer to your little friend, Satan.

    Someone gave me a medal from Medj. for Christmas; my immediate response was "that's not good."

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  13. Terry,

    Listen to those who have actually been to Medjugorje. I've been there and heard the Wind of the Holy Spirit on top of Cross Mountain. Coming back by train I felt my heart expanding to the degree that it was painful! That was decades ago but recently I read that it's an actual phenomenon that Eastern Christianity knows about. I met Ivan and Jakov, one on one, just me and them. Ivan told me to Pray, Pray, Pray ..from the Heart! and to him it was like very important!

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  14. SF said: “Personal opinions divide the flock and cause dissension”

    Yes, this happens, but we are given the gift of free will and hopefully the freedom to express an opinion... just as you have done with your comment on the Medjugorje phenomenon... just as the Mostar bishop has given his “personal” opinion on the seers and claims of apparitions. Why, even Rome has said that when the bishop speaks about the alleged apparitions at Medjugorje, it is his “personal” opinion only.

    The outcome, if any, of the Medjugorje phenomenon, does not rest with the Mostar bishop, but with the Holy See. The sooner those who speak against the phenomenon, realise and accept this, then the less people will remain confused.

    I find it hard to believe that those who keep holding onto the myth that the local bishop is sacrosanct in all things Medjugorje refuse to listen to any voice coming from the Holy See.

    And when you ask most adversaries if they have ever been on a pilgrimage to Medjugorje, the most likely answer is “No” or “I don’t need to.”

    Now the time has come for the latest cardinal to receive flak and criticism for visiting Medjugorje and speaking out. But the adversaries are blind to the truth of his words from scripture given in his homily at Medjugorje: “We cannot refrain from speaking of what we have seen and heard(Acts).

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  15. Dear Pilgrim and others,

    Medjugorge is not necessary for salvation. You write as if it is gospel - it is not. I recognize people pray and are converted there, and good works come from those associated with the apparitions - indeed even good vocations - but the phenomena is not above the Church.

    I regret I responded to the two stories I linked to here. I was in a dark place when I watched Jakov's video and that tear - I too wanted to feel something - all I felt was aridity, coldness and indifference - I wanted to feel some kind of devotion or spiritual consolation. Indeed, the cardinal's visit didn't help any either. But I'm content to live in darkness and solitude. Faith is better. "I prefer not to see." as St. Therese said.

    To suggest that one needs to go there in order to discern is ludicrous - Christ warns against such things in the gospel, "A time will come when you long to see one day of the Son of Man but will not see it. They will tell you he is to be found in this place or that. Do not go running about excitedly." Luke 17

    As SF said - we have Christ in our tabernacles. And believe me, the local ordinary - bishop - does have the responsibility to safeguard his flock. As in the case of Akita - the local bishop approved the messages there as worthy of belief - should his opinion be passed over as being personal or private when it is not? No. Therefore, the local bishop in charge of Medjugore must be obeyed.

    As in every appararition that is approved - the only approval the Church extends is to declare it worthy of belief - albeit not necessary for salvation. Your arguments are beginning to sound very cult like.

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